Transition roses

All of the crosses that I made usinging Crested Jewel as the pollen parent failed. I’ve read here that some use a transition rose as the seed parent and I was thinking that next year I should use such a rose.

So how do you determine which rose to use? Is this just trial and error (seems I’m pretty good at the “error”) or do you back cross?

I don’t know Crested Jewel, but I know an important principle is to find out if the rose makes fertile pollen. I mentioned somewhere before that I like to do test crosses onto cultivars that are very accepting. For instance I use Carefree Beauty, and one of its seedlings with Rise N Shine as my test plants. If something won’t set seed on those, it may be very difficult for it to set seed on anything of the same general category. These two work for most common CV, unless of course you are bridging diploid to tetra and vice versa, or way out there on the gallica or N.A. species branches of the tree. But this year C.B.x RnS accepted pollen from David Zlesak’s R pomifera triploid. (No germination test yet). And earlier C.B. gave many seedlings with Austrian Copper.

Last season, survey crosses of Crested Jewel pollen on Golden Angel, Happiness and Royal Highness all yielded seeds that contained viable embryos that germinated although the Golden Angel embryos didn’t make it to be potted up.

In addition, Crested Jewel pollen on Tiffany gave ten seeds all of which had embryos but the hip had over-ripened and rotted on the vine before harvest and the embryos were dead by that time. My notes indicate that had I been paying more attention and harvested the hip earlier the embryos would probably have been fine.

Crested Jewel pollen on Ballerina and Flower Carpet Red did not take, one attempt each.

Also last season, survey crosses of R. moyesii, Joycie, Scarlet Moss and Eddie’s Jewel pollen on Crested Jewel gave a few seeds each but the seeds did not have viable embryos. Pollen from AARS test rose #08R406 on Crested Jewel gave two seeds, only one of which had an embryo. This embryo did germinate and was eventually potted up. I don’t know if it still survives.

Thanks Larry.

I have not even thought about ploidy at this point in my hobby. Maybe I should think about it a little more.

Vavoom and Honey Perfume seem to be my best seed parents so far. Or I just “did it right” with those two plants.

A good transition rose is one where the traits are not specifically inquired about but it is a really universally fruitful seed parent and is genetically related in some fashion to the difficult pollen you intend to use.

Crested Jewel is half Rosa x centrifolia, which has an unknown origin but is related in various ways to Rosa gallica, Rosa canina, Rosa moschata and the Damask (which is related to Rosa gallica, Rosa moschata and Rosa fedtschenkoana).

Little Darling is a mixture of Pernetiana, Noisette derived HMusk, Multiflora-derived Polyantha, Tea and Hybrid Perpetual. It is extremely diverse, which is probably why it has been such a universal parent. The fact that it can breed any color when matched properly due to this diversity is also probably helpful.

I would use Shockwave personally but I think there are a lot of potential matches out there if the pollen on yours is fertile, as others have suggested to know. It seems that modern roses strongly descending from tetraploid European and Persian Briars are your best bet.

Normally ‘Crested Jewel’ is extremely fertile as a pollen parent and can accomplish seed set on a wide variety of tetraploid parents with ease. It is probably unwise to make too many assumptions about the parents selected to put the pollen on just because one attempt failed. It might be that the pollen had lost viability in the mail (exposed to extreme heat in transit can kill pollen) or perhaps your chosen seed parents aren’t mature enough to set seed reliably? Perhaps it was just this year’s sh*tty Spring weather that interfered with seed set.

Normally my plant of 1-72-1 sets seed easily, but this year almost no pollinations took until the last few late June attempts. I always try a cross a second year if its something I really want to do. If a second try fails, I will assume some kind of incompatibility and look at other ways to achieve the same result.

This year was awful for hybridizing here in the PNW. lol, I did about 30 various pollinations of Cinco de Mayo, Wild Blue Yonder & Henry’s Blend on Violet Mist. I also put about 15 onto Summer Wind, which sets seed with extreme ease. 100% of those crosses, made during that March-weather-in-June time, failed.

Maybe my rookie status as well as a number of other factors worked against me this year. Unless we are hit by a comet or something along those lines there will always be next year for another go at it.

I was hoping to find CJ at Heirloom last week, but no luck. Another trip to California is in the works for this week-end, so maybe I’ll swing by Vintage Gardens.