The inheritance of stripes

A friend who’s interested in breeding striped roses wrote to ask the following:


How certain is it that Rosa gallica officinalis is a parent of Rose du Roi?

Since R gallica off. sported into Rosa Mundi (striped)

and Rose du Roi sported into Rose du Roi Panachee (striped),

maybe there is a possibility to get striped sports from the offspring of Rosa Mundi too?


Since I couldn’t find an answer in my reference materials, I’d like to put the question before the group. Those of you who have worked with striped roses probably have some first-hand experiences to share, and maybe others have some references to share.

Peter

Peter,

It all depends on where the “sport” has occurred. Often a sport represents a genetic change in only one of three distinct layers of a plant. The layer that produces petals is different than the layer that produces egg or sperm. Often times a sport will breed true to its original form instead of the sport.

I tried for several seasons to get stripes from Caribia, a striped sport of Piccadilly, and never got a stripe.

Ferdinand Pichard is traced back is one way or another to most, if not all the new (non-sport) striped roses. It has reliably passed on stripes to as much as 35% of its seedlings for me. I suspect there may well be other old striped roses that will pass on their markings, but one would have to experiment to find out which ones will work.

Randy Hughes

Modern Roses XI doesn’t give parents for Rose du Roi. Some sources say Portland Rose X Rosa gallica officinalis, usually with a question mark. Those parents don’t seem very likely. Rose du Roi is a good rebloomer, while Portland Rose is a poor rebloomer, and Rosa gallica officinalis doesn’t rebloom at all.

It is interesting to go to Help Me Find and look up Ferdinand Pichard and click on descendants to see how many of our modern roses are known to descend from Ferdinand Pichard. It helped to clarify the linage of many roses when Ralph Moore named some of his unnamed seedlings that were used as broodstock.

Hope the link to Ferdinand Pichard works.

Good Luck

Link: www.helpmefind.com/sites/rrr/pl.php?n=2729

I called Carlton Roses last week, I ordered 2 Hocus Pocus custom to be delivered in a few months. I called back today to order some roses in stock and talked with George again and in more depth. Carlton Roses was purchased last year by the company who supplied Carlton with the roses, Rose Gene Inc… All the roses you order from Carlton now come from California. George was very nice and more than happy to be of assistance and very informative.

Abracadabra is a sport of Hocus Pocus. Hocus Pocus is a sport of Black Beauty. This part is believable. Black Beauty is a sport of Frisco. Frisco is a light yellow floribunda with long stems and is one of the most productive florist roses. I grew this one a few years ago from Carlton. It was a beautiful rose just not a good garden rose.

My first guess is that Hocus Pocus will not pass on the stripes, but I am sure I will try a few crosses anyway.

Link: kordes-rosen.com/e_schnitt/frameset.html

I’d be inclined to agree with you that the stripes wouldn’t be passed along. But the tendency to sport (even to sport to stripes) might be passed along, and that might be just about as good, if you have the patience for the sportin’ life.

That chain of descent clearly involves a bit of what Kordes seems to do all too often–re-use of a name. The ‘Abracadabra’ shown on the Kordes site is nothing like the ‘Abracadabra’ hybridized by Warriner (see link below). And on the Kordes site we can also see, just for a bit of confusion, a ‘Ballerina’ which is not the HMsk.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=20