The clone going around called 'Rosa alabukensis'

I recieved this plant from Brentwood Bay Nur. who got it from Joan Montieth (sp?). several questions have come up-

When looking at the original latin desciption from russia it said that it was related to R. beggiana. Other than having persistant sepal on the hips nothing says that it is a section cassiorhodon. The pistils are also long.

The scent is similar to Rosa feotida and the leaves are similar and are prone to blackspot. The pollen grains are large perhaps sugesting tetraploid when compaired to a polyantha- I know unreliable except where each plant is closely related.

But this theory has holes. The pollen is fertile, blooms very early, the colour bleachs, and the stems are brick red. And the clencher it will sometimes put out double flowers.

Is this rose, Rosa xanthina the old semi double?

I will try to do a chromosome count on the roots but this looks difficult once the plant is in the ground.

Any info would be appreciated.

Looks distinct from xanthina to me. The growth habit is totally different and this rose suckers extensively. What I grow as xanthina does not.

I got my start from Kim Ruppert. I believe he has some documentation on it, but either I didn’t get it or (more likely) misplaced it. My memorey is he got his start from England (perhaps Peter Beales?). Hopefully Kim will reply to this thread.

I will say that my plant is different from what I have as xanthina, hugonis, or primula. It is also hardier than these three. If my memory is correct, the hips are different too.

Whatever it is, it’s fertile.

Alabukensis came from the Study Plot at The Huntington. Bill Grant sent me a packet of information some years ago, which I can’t locate. From what I remember, it’s been documented by Soviet botanists. Yes, it’s fertile, setting hips all over. They began life here sort of cranberry red and turned black. Unfortunately, I no longer have it.

I have a nice one here if you’d like it Kim. I also have the double form. I have hips using the pollen of the double form on a few different parents.

I obtained the so called Rosa alabukensis from Brentwood Bay Nursery last fall. It is blooming in a greenhouse right now. The single flowers having occasionally a couple extra petals are creamy yellow fading to white. In my opinion, it is a selection of the Altai rose (Rosa spinosissima altaica). Similar characteristics include small foliage, reddish stems, size, form and colour of flowers, and fragrance. It definitely has the distinctive fragrance of the Altai rose that persists in the latter species progeny.

By the way, I have arranged with a greenhouse worker (after teaching her how) to make a cross of it with ‘Dr. F.L. Skinner’. I had two plants of ‘Dr. F. L. Skinner’ propagated from cuttings last year that are just coming into bloom in the greenhouse. The cross I really want to do with ‘Dr. F. L. Skinner’ is with ‘Hazeldean’. I’ll do that in late spring outdoors.

I wonder if Brentwood Bay is offering the same thing that I am growing? Are the photos one HMF similar? What I have is a fairly deep yellow. Mine never goes to white.

I would certainly never expect black spot from spinosissima ‘Altaica’?

I have not seen BS but Peter says he has in WV?

It would be great were this true.

HMF suggests origin Russia?

Do we have any new information on R. alabukensis since this last posting?

The formal description of 1979 states that the hips are orange-red when ripe.

I have a copy of the Latin disruption (somewhere). It says yellow turning white. It’s a bit of a weed. I have never actually used in breeding.

Thank you both. Does anyone know the ploidy of this one?

The Latin description I linked to says, “Flores 3.7-4.8 cm in diam. albi, apice ramulorum floriferorum in inflorescentiis corymbosis dispositi.”

“Flowers 3.7-4.8 cm in diameter, white, corymbose inflorescences disposed in the apex of the flowering branches.”

… corymbose inflorescences disposed in the apex of the flowering branches."

Thank you Karl. What exactly does that mean though?

You know, Rob, the opposite of uncorymbose inflorescences which aren’t disposed in the apex of the flowering branches.

LOL That make so much more sense Kim!

Too funny!

Some folks do get wordy in their Latin. A simpler reading would be "Flowers in corymbs at the ends of the flowering branches.

Thank you Karl. The description sounds very attractive, unless there is something I’m missing. I have this rose and want to breed with it and that’s why I have all the questions.

Karl I see my mistake, from my notes:
“Buds are yellow but turn a disappointing cream”
My copy proved to be a very expensive mistake. Johannes