Yes, Karl, as both Harkness and LeGrice wrote, water stress induces mildew. Dry the plants out sufficiently and you get diseases. When something mildews here, I increase the water. With my selections for this yard, that’s done the trick.
… interesting challenge, and great step out from the pollinating paradigm “to make it set” … good luck and have to agree … “what ever takes to see what results”
Have a minor interesting conundrum for myself tonight. While shucking hips and sink testing … from an own root Basye’s Purple that finally did a prolific bloom and hip setting after 5 years (this one generates up 30 in a hip)
… challenge is half float, half sink. Guide as understood keep floaters for rugosa hybrids, sinkers for others.
Decision … keep em both … lots of roses around its growing spot.
… forgot to add, also keeping separate to see if any germination difference.
I would be interested to see if you keep both (separate), to see results. I did that with Hansa. Those that sunk had fairly good germination rate. Those that floated did not: if I remember right there was one floater germinated (out of a lot) and that could easily have been a mistake by me. I’d be curious to see what your results are.
Duane
Hi Duane
I would of normally chucked the sinkers because of the clear cut behaviour of even the complex parentage Therese Bugnet and same with non - rugosas. Got 95 to 99% density separation efficiency with hard water … beats many mineral density separation processes … though this seed ore is nearly 100% in grade vs for eg tin - cassiterite ore.
However of the couple dozen crosses and OP hips tested, this rugosa hybrid had an outlier float behaviour, and that coupled with notes of apparently a poor hip producer ( got lots of hips and seeds within from my example this year) … means had to save both products as curious it means anything else besides 50% duds.
… or l mixed two different rose classes … then the density separation technique is pretty good goal judge … did check plant and leaves though as plantings are pretty dense in my garden
I have read of a few techniques to defeat the self-incompatibility trap, but only one seems applicable to roses: stylar amputation.
The SI rejection mechanism apparently works in the style. Remove the style and the problem is solved. Some experimenters have tried splicing the stigma of a compatible species or specimen onto the style of one that is incompatible. Davies (1957) reported that this stigma grafting was not helpful in Lathyrus hybrids. He had not trouble crossing the Sweet Pea (Lathyrus odoratus) with L. hirsutus.
Davies (1957)
http://bulbnrose.x10.mx/Heredity/DaviesLathyrusHybs1957.html
This report has links to Buchholz (1932) and Reychler (1926) for further information.
This one is definitely going on my “Why not? … Just try it” list for next season.
Score one for “likely carelessness” or as some citizen of the north say “tabernac…” … after going back into garden to check found strong possibility “Lac La Nonne” hips in mix - rugosa, prolific hips, seed and same near even split of sink and float, and direct intermixed cane neighbour of Basye’s Purple” … upside good Bugnet rugosa rose to see what pops out of op.
I tend to repeat pollination, if the blooms still there why not? But I also mostly mix pollen into loose groups (ie 2n species, 4n OGR, Yellow, etc) so pollen isn’t really lacking. Mostly came from some research paper about beardless iris (granted different genus and different process but who knows) wide crosses where some would take on early, multiple or late pollination but failed doing the normal way. So far has worked on the near sterile Crested Moss, hips swelling again this year, and some small seedlings from last years pollinations. Less successful on golden cheronese.
Do l understand your pollen pouches are separate, but each specific blend related by “xyz”n, or by class, but from different roses within?
If so, l assume your not fussed about which pollen(s) in a related group succeeded?
That approach sounds interesting and successful, but would require a untethered bungee leap off the wharf for me as origins insecure at this stage for primary target crosses … still want to be tied as to whose pollen it was to avoid a rip tide.
Pollen pouches are separate and related by trait or class yes. To me it doesn’t matter which pollen parent/s succeed or not since I’m looking for specific traits in the seedlings, ie Yellow, if the seedlings don’t have yellow then it probably doesn’t benefit me in my goals to keep them. Similar with 2n species (which isn’t strictly species, a lot of near hybrids are in it), which get used on polys/chinas/teas/modern diploids so looking for obvious cross from any species influence (lack of junvenile bloom being the first obvious sign…then just a wait to find out if fertile). 4n OGR doesn’t really matter, mostly just pollen that I use on Crested Moss, whatever takes is a win as it’s entirely about increasing the options for cresting and hopefully finding something that is more receptive.
Just another example that’s a year or two away. I have a bunch of Blue For You x Fedt seedlings, they’ll be crossed amongst their siblings in an attempt to recover juvenile rebloom and mostly Fedt foliage. With a ~2.7% of recovering rebloom, even with 1000 seedlings is only around ~27 juvenile reblooming plants who may not achieve my goal. Given the number of seed required, and similar genetics in the parents vs the end goal, specific pollen parent in those is also unimportant. Even if foliage doesn’t quite reach my expectations, but is partly achieved will attempt to F2 x Fedt and repeat the process.
Txs for the info on your strategy approach. This imo is definitely a logical and good one to put into the tool box as an option.
… framing the statistics indicates a pretty daunting challenge, scale and therefore why care too much whose pollen so long as know the blend and trait.
Though believe l have adequate starting plant class and right trait inventory spread for blends, l may need to consider more vertical room in basement for more seedlings racks if experiment with this route. No budget for outside heated greenhouse … txs again as really broadens the options.
There are a couple of techniques that might help encourage flowering and hip set. These are Binding and Ringing.
Binding involves nothing more than wrapping a strong string or twine around a cane and tie it tight enough to impede the downward movement of carbohydrates, protein and such, while not blocking the upward flow of water and minerals.
Ringing has a similar effect, but involves removing a ring of bark. It is important NOT to cut through to the wood. This technique is also called “girdling”, but that name also refers to a tree-killing method that DOES cut through the inner cambium.
I have examples and other, related methods. Anyone want a horseradish plant to give seeds? How about increased yield on seedless grapes? Forcing Passiflora Alata to bloom out of season:?
Interesting,
… and reminds of once saw a live modern day example of a version of this method this year on Monty’ Gardeners World.
Done by a by a skilled “plants person” from the west country. He was demonstrating it for for controlling wanted, and unwanted, growth of tree limbs near the garden pathways - without limb pruning for latter case.
For “wanted growth” he made what looked about a half inch to inch high incision on the trunk “above the limb” and roughly the width of the limb - trunk junction … or maybe slightly more
Can’t remember the depth. The theory was reduce circumventing around the limb.
For the case of depressing growth of a limb, the incision was below the limb.
No post video follow up to show how successful. Never had heard of method until then.
I think might try this in the back forty till get it right …
Should mention the live example was for depressing growth (cut slot below) as young limb was heading to be in the way of traffic/ view. Mention can use reverse to encourage.
Anyone know much/tried anything with 6-Benzylaminopurine or 1-Naphthaleneacetic acid? Comes up in other genus of plants, usually at 0.1% concentrations which seems to help with fertility in some cases.