Kim,
Perhaps I should have been more specific. I didn’t list these characteristics in order of importance. I numbered them to make them easier to read. Obviously, if a rose is not disease resistant then everything else is irrelevant.
Interestingly, Micheal Marriott, per Austin’s site, grows organically and spray-free – the implication being that English roses are good for the spray-free organic garden.
While clearly a matter of taste, fragrance is somewhat high on my list. If a plant were disease-free and perfumed the entire garden, as is the case with, say, my tea olive, my Jasminum sambac’s, the citrus, etc… Then it could earn a place. But the weights of any attribute are all relative, and disease-resistance would undoubtedly be first and foremost. Add three out of four of the others, and we’re really talking.
It should be noted that where I live, I can get unbelievable color impact from i.e. bougainvillea and hibiscus, so perhaps I’m asking too much.
Sorry Paul, if I misread you. Austin may grow ‘organically’ in England and be able to get away with it, but here in the warmer, and often damper, areas, the rust and black spot on his roses are horrid. Anything loosely related to Conrad Ferdinand Meyer rusts as badly as CFM does.
I’m grateful Austin didn’t include BOTH ‘Conrad F. Meyer’ AND ‘Rose a Parfum de l’Hay’ in his work. We’d be in such trouble then! lol
Here’s a second generation glauca x pendulina hybrid that flowered for the first time today.
1 Like
Another shot
So for the under-addressed attributes: disease resistance, foliage, form, what are folks looking to for new material?
In my climage, properly grown, Banksia is the only rose I’ve grown I could consider disease-free. (Admittedly, I need to build my collection of species.) I know Robert has worked with such. Are seedlings very resistant? And other’s favorite species? (Somhow, I keep thinking I should look to the Synstylae.)
Foliage? For foliage texture, many small-leafed species (Pimpernellifoliae, Cinnamomae?) seem attractive. I personally am not a big fan of huge floppy leaves – makes a bush look coarse to me, unless flowers are equally massive. And there is the debate over glossy vs. matte foliage – one I think would depend on what foliage serves as a backdrop to. And as mentioned, the colors of foliage are important, particularly according to what hangs on it. (i.e. yellow-green leaves don’t do a yellow flower justice – sometimes reads as a diseased leaf rather than a bloom from a distance on such a bush, IMO.)
Robert, did your second generation glauca/pendulina babies maintain much of their foliage color? I like that you obtained some creamy yellows close to the R.g. species. Could make for a nice contrast with foliage.
No real thoughts on form here. Once one can obtain healthy dense foliage on a plant, the form determines function , be it an arching patio, an erect form, a climber… I suppose it’s hard to say a plant has a lousy form per se – just so long as it doesn’t sucker too badly.
Of course I forgot to add remontancy to my personal (southern gardener’s) list of “F’s”
On fungi and Austin roses: as far as I know did Austin adopt a no spray regime in his selection process about 10 years ago. So his newer introductions should be healthier then older ones. I am still in the process of checking for that. I do grow several of his cvs; none of them is really resistant here (north Germany) but I will see how they are doing when they are properly established.
Kordes does not spray its new seedlings since several decades.
I am interested in using Rosa calocarpa. This is already a species hybrid of rugosa and chinensis.
I do have a 3year old seedling (op) with good health and hope to see first flowers this year.
Philip, to my knowledge tetraploid descendants of banksia are no more resistant to Black Spot than average so far.
Keep in mind banksia contribution is small in these hybrids. I’m still refining them. Much depends on what they are married to.
Fortunately I’ve also got a diploid line of banksia descendants. They no doubt offer much better disease resistance. At some point I will merge breeding lines to try concentrating banksia characteristics. It’s a slow process but I think it will be rewarding in the end.
As I mentioned earlier the first generation descendants of glauca x Pendulina I got from joan Monteith were not very blue, at least in my climate. It looks like glaucous foliage can occasionally be observed in descendants.
Blue foliage is not one of the criteria I’m selecting for. I was pleased to get nice branching and yellow blossom color in an F2 hybrid with this seedling.
Here is a shot of the first of several new miniature helenae hybrids taken today.
Blossom size on this one a bit smaller than a quarter dollar.
The cross is (Duchesse de Brabant X Helrou).
The bud upper part of the photo is a separate seedling and will be more double and pink.
Hopefully it will be open by tomorrow.
A number of these were culled early for mildew.
Fors those of you who have never seen Basye’s Amphidiploid “86-3”.
This is the first blossom to open from the plant received from Jim Turner last year.
Here’s the first line bred glauca x pendulina seedling to blossom. Not surprisingly, it’s a pink single, though surprisingly, large.
The cross is (Gentle Annie x (glauca x pendulina) x (Country Dancer x (glauca x pendulina).
I made up a page so you can study the lineage. Classifying some of these new species derivatives is going to be a challenge.
Impressive size. Looks to be 4" or so?
And R. helenae is a Synstylae species I’ve been curious about. Have you used it much, and can you speak to the attributes it passes on?
A mini helenae… Hmmm…
Phillip, “Helrou” as a mini, mostly gives minis in the first generation. It does however occasionally give full sized offspring. I’ve made a number of hybrids and have more waiting to flower for the first time any day.
Health of seedlings seems generally better than average though some will mildew. I haven’t had any tested for Blackspot resistance.
Fertility of hybrids seems to be unusually good considering ploidy issues.
Attaching photo taken a couple of days ago of a helenae, californica, banksia derivative married to a Hybrid Tea bred by Jim Sproul.
It may in fact be tetraploid at this point. I’m guessing the pollen parent was triploid.
Blossom about 4" across and surprisingly fragrant of cloves.
“Classifying some of these new species derivatives is going to be a challenge.”
Might I suggest “Rippetoeana” as a new class name?
Rolls right off the tongue doesn’t it? lol
This one finally opened for the first time this morning. So far it’s once flowering.
There’s quite a lot of multifora, china and moschata influence.
There’s enough yellow to keep me interested and so far it’s clean. Should be diploid. Fragrance is sweet.
Too bad it’s a single but there should be plenty of pollen to play with. I’m hoping it carries repeat.
Working with species requires a lot of patience.
I like it. It’s pretty. Interesting lineage. I can imagine a two tone like that with some subtle striping…
This seedling is about the closest thing to a species derivative that I have this year. It is from Adelaide Hoodless which is half R. arkansana. Dad is probably a once blooming found rose which is very disease resistant, shade tolerant, odd stiff growth- and seems to be an odd species derivative itself(NOT multiflora).
I believe dad to be the first pink rose pictured here.
http://www.heritagerosefoundation.org/discus/messages/257/6260.html?1252640237
I expect a once blooming medium red double, probable diploid, with disease and shade resistance, 6-10’ perhaps. I don’t know- we’ll see how close I get.
(yes those are weedlings/volunteer rugosa and crape myrtle and american holly babies all clumped together- I’m slow to pull)