Source of a bicolor

I have an open pollinated seedling of Ebb Tide (EBBTIDOP02/Seedling 13-008) that is quite amazing in its color (at least to me). It is a clear violet with a yellow center but it also has a light saffron yellow reverse. As it is an open pollinated seedling, I have no clue as to what it has for a pollen parent, but given the fact that it has a yellow reverse I am convinced that it cannot be a self. I say this because I don’t see any bicolors in Ebb Tide’s background (unless I missed it).

The nearest bicolors are Las Vegas which is 2 rows back and one plant over (so about 10 feet away with 2 plants between it and Ebb Tide) and Biola Centennial which is 2 rows up and about 2 plants over (so about 15 feet away with 3-4 plants between). This particular bed is set up as a grid with the bush roses 3 feet apart from each other, in 4 rows and alternated so that the bush in the row in front or behind is not grown directly in front or behind. The miniatures grow 18 inches apart and are in the front row.

So now I wonder what the source of the bicolor could trait be (bicolored being defined as a reverse that is a different solid color)? Could it be an expression of a deeply burried gene within Ebb Tide’s background? Could it be just a spontaneous change in the genetic makeup that occurred at meiosis? Or could a bee have really gone from either Las Vegas or Biola Centennial to Ebb tide without wanting to stop at the other bushes that were also blooming at the time?

It is a little too young to know if it will be a large flowered variety or a miniature, but I am very curious about this one.

There’s a fair chance that the bicolor trait came from Pernetianas in the ancestry of Sunsprite. Of course there’s also a reasonable chance that it has come from pollen of another rose in your garden.

Do you have a Gemini(or Gemini derivative) anywhere nearby? I have gotten several similar violet edged with yellow centers, complete with yellow reverses with both Gemini x Rt 66, and with Rt 66 x ELLE. They all fade to the most amazing russet or grey lavender. Rt 66 and Ebb Tide share more than a few common ancestors, among them Fantastique which has a yellow center and yellow reverse. My Ebb Tide has not been quite so creative, but the orange Ebb Tide x 34-06-05 has a yellow reverse and center. Just not very contrasting with its’ orangy pink. Post a photo when you get one, it sounds nice.

E.B. LeGrice wrote in Unusual Colors in Roses, mauve is produced by an admixture of colors, including Foetida bicolors. He offered examples of what happened when the red/yellow bicolor was replace by red/white bicolors. Click on the red linked article at the beginning of this post to read the article.

Ebb Tide already has multiple doses of bicolor behind it through all the lavender HTs included in its breeding. Your bicolor is likely an expression of genetic combinations already present.

Thanks for all the replies. Regardless of where the bicolor effect comes from it is a striking color combo.

I was finally able to upload some photos of the seedling. Just follow the link above. The color is a little washed out (it’s more purple and yellow) but at least you can see the bicolor effect.

I like the flower, Andre. It reminds me of Double Feature and a bit of Chantillty Lace.

Thanks Kim, I like the fact that is has both the reverse bicolor and such a strong “eye” to it. I don’t know how it will mature, but I am hoping it is a keeper for at least a little bit. The pictures were of its second flowering. I barely remember the first flowering as many of my Ebb Tide OP seedlings bloomed at the same time in various shades purple and various degrees of proliferation. At the time I didn’t put much thought into the bloom (as with most first flowerings). This one, according to my notes, had a case of proliferation too and the only other note I had down was ‘double, purple.’ So it looked like the rest of the EBBTIDOP seedlings. I am finding many variations in the second blooming of these seedlings and a disappearance of most proliferated blooms (which is good).

During their first bloom my seedlings were in a 6oz. yogurt container. I number them by the order that they flower (13-008 is the 8th to flower for me) with the once bloomers getting numbered in the ordered they are potted in the next pot which is a tall 4 inch square pots. Now that most have been moved to the 4 inch pots, they are starting to take off. I also just gave the seedlings a dose of fertilization - I hold off for a long time for no particular reason - probably my fear of burning them and I really don’t do a lot of fertilization anyway. Disease resistance is also better in the 4 inch pots because they are getting better, stronger roots. They will stay in these pots until next Spring when the ones I plan on keeping are moved to 1 gallon nursery pots.

When the pictures were taken of EBBTIDOP02, it had only been in the 4 inch pot for 3 days so I don’t know how it will go from here. I have snipped off the bloom and am hoping that it will start to take off even faster. Even before moving it, this seedling was showing better vigor than many seedling so I have hope that it will be better than its parent. I am now hoping that the flowers start increasing in size - ideally between 3-4 inches.

Yes, you will definitely see improvements as the plants mature, Andre. Part of it is the increased root system with maturity. Another part is, with larger soil mass, there is less water and temperature stress to the roots which can force even resistant roses to develop disease. You can force any rose to mildew by drying it out far enough, long enough. I was surprised how easy it is to force many of them to rust, the same way. Bump up the water so they’re not stressed and magically, no more diseases.