(Sir Thomas Lipton X OP) X Simon Fraser

My Sir Thomas Lipton X OP is a suspected tetraploid. I now have a number of young plants of the above cross. Some have very rugosa folliage, some have very non rugosa folliage (this is similar to what David Austin reported when he used the tetraploid rugosa Conrad Ferdinand Meyer).

The first non rugosa type seedling has bloomed. It is a single darker pink with a white eye. The next step is to see if it is fertile with tetraploid pollen and if its pollen will fertilize other tetraploids.

Another tibit - For me Simon Fraser will not set seed, but it is an excellant pollen donator. I feel that Simon Fraser as a shrub is equivalent to the Knock series of shrub roses. Any other comments about Simon Fraser?

knock out has set seeds for me.

Sorry, I meant that Simon Fraser is equivalent as a garden rose, not that it is equivalent as a mother.

That’s interesting Henry.

I find it interesting that how the rugosa leaves may leave or come back in a few generations.

For example, 77-361 and it’s parent, Basye’s Amphidiploid, don’t have the rugosa foilage.

Kim’s Lynnie and my seedling Queen Elizabeth X 77-361 don’t have the rugosa foilage.


My new Pacific Serenade x 77-361 seedling has rugosa like foilage. They’re more resistant to my QE seedling, but foilage is paper thin. Still interesting how the rugosa suddenly “came back” after a few generations.

I have a seedling directly from Basye’s Amphidiploid, and it has no rugosa foilage. Only thing rugosa about it is the thorns.

This 2004 plant of (Sir Thomas Lipton X OP) X Simon Fraser flowered on 5-30-2006, 6-17-2006, 7-18-2006, 8-9-2006, and today 10-12-2006. See:


As can be seen from the picture the leaves now have blackspot (I do not spray), but the plant did not loose any of its leaves.

Link: home.neo.rr.com/kuska/(Sir%20Thomas%20Lipton%20X%20OP)%20X%20Simon%20Fraser.htm

I used ‘Simon Fraser’ for the first time this year by crossing it with ‘Prairie Peace’. I didn’t have a definite goal; it was just to test ‘Simon Fraser’ as a pistillate parent. Results were fair for setting hips, although they tend to have an unusual shape (flattened) and be malformed. I think ‘Simon Fraser’ has been overlooked for its potential of breeding compact shrubs.

‘Simon Fraser’ also shares the similarity with ‘Knock Out’ and other good landscape roses in that it is triploid.

I haven’t found ‘Simon Fraser’ to have any fertility, but the very similar ‘Frontenac’ does produce hips and seeds. You can tell the difference between the two explorer roses at a glance by the fact that ‘Simon Fraser’ is a more salmon pink and ‘Frontenac’ has red stamens.

I’m amazed that you had OP seeds from your Sir Thomas Lipton. I never had any hip set on that one. Good luck with it Henry.

Rob, see:


Does anyone who received the seeds have anything to report?

Link: www.rosehybridizers.org/forum/message.php?topid=3483#3483

It’s amazing how nature somtimes stives against odds to be able to reproduce. This is quite a find Henry. Is the flower form of the Sir Thomas Lipton X OP different at all from Sir Thomas Lipton?

If you have any seeds available from your Sir Thomas Lipton X OP next year I’d love to obtain some from you. Good luck with this plant.