Scarlet Moss X Basye's Thornless

This cross was made last year, and I am just now beginning to have the opportunity to evaluate some of the seedlings.

In talking with Mr. Ralph Moore about ‘Basye’s Thornless’, he thought that there was evidence that the thornlessness of the variety was dominant. To test that theory, I thought, “why not cross it with something really thorny!”. So, I selected ‘Scarlet Moss’(and note, that ‘Scarlet Moss’ was used as the seed parent).

Most of the seedlings are with few to no thorns. One of the seedlings is completely thornless, but does have some prickles on the back of the rachis. Also, they are exceedingly clean. In the few prior crosses with ‘Basye’s Thornless’ that I have made, none flowered in the first year. Some of these seedlings, however, are flowering 10 to 12 weeks after germination. Among those that have bloomed so far, the flower form more closely resembles ‘Basye’s Thornless’. I am hoping for more of a recurrent blooming habit in these seedlings rather than the scant blooming that is seen in BT.

Another interesting characteristic of these seedlings seems to be that the sepals have more than just a hint of the mossing, similar to that seen in the moss roses. Although I really do enjoy the prickly moss roses, wouldn’t it be interesting to have moss-sepaled roses with smooth stems?!





Which Bayse’s Thornless are you using? There is 65-626 (Commander Gillette) and 77-361.(Bayse’s Legacy)


Hi Randy:

I received a “Basye’s Thornless” from Mr. Ralph Moore, without a number attached to it. It is completely thornless even on the leaves, has long willowy canes and light pink simple flowers with abundant pollen. Hips are a light almost tranluscent orange (it sets hips very easily, though germination is not that good and seeds are quite small). It has a good spring bloom (blooming in small clusters) and then a lighter bloom in the fall. Does that sound familiar?


It sounds very much like my seedlings from Commander Gillette. My Seeds came from a plant at the San Jose Heritage Rose Garden in California. It is a hybrid of r. arkansana and a hybrid perpetual (Victor Hugo?)

Your descriptions of the flowers and hips match mine to a tee, except the seeds from mine have yeilded no sprouts so far. Of the three seedlings two have just a few thorns and one is completely thornless. This latter does rebloom a little.

I have yet to get any seedlings from any of mine as pollen parents either. Obviously the origional is superior to my seedlings.


It is Commander Gillette, I’ve seen the plant hundreds of times. I also saw that Sequia Nursery’s paper catalog had Commander Gillette, so most likely you got is Commander Gillette. Isn’t it great as a plant? Just so stunning. It is way too big for me to grow for once bloomer, but I do grow its offspring Basye’s Legacy and Blueberry. CG is a 2nd or 3rd generation open pollinated (Help me here, is the term called F1 and F1?) hybrid of R. carolina and Hugh Dickinson. Jim, your seedlings sounds great. I would like to see this in the future, as I don’t find really thorny roses without bloom (like the once blooming mosses) attractive. I had ideas of trying to create a thornless sweet brier rose hybrid so that the foilage has that wonderful perfume, but without any thorns. Wouldn’t it be great if anyone could just rub their whole body against a plant and smell like apples? I got Greenmantle for this purpose. I also have Applejack and Lady Penanze, but for other purposes.