Scarlet Moss' scarlet coloring

It seems to me that passing on Scarlet Moss’ scarlet coloring is just plain hard.

It seems to me that it can pass several colors, even beatiful peachy colors, but… not scarlet. Today, I’m seeing my first Scarlet Moss X Fakir’s Delight seedling bloom after two years. It bloomed this early spring, but the frosts killed the buds. So, I was happy to see its first flowers blooming today. Well, I’m seeing the petals peak out, and it’s a peachy-orangey color. I had hoped a scarlet moss, but with the form of Fakir’s Delight.

Anyone who raises limited seedlings have felt this? I had imagined that such a strong scaret color would pass on easily.

So far, scarlet has utterly confounded me. I can get it only in minis–and minis without any fragrance whatsoever, I might add.

Don’t worry about your buds being peachy-orangey at this stage, though; I have one flower that, when it first showed color, it looked plain blah pink. Now that the plant is more mature, it is a deep, smoldering, gorgeous ruby!

-Fa

Fara:

“deep, smoldering, gorgeous ruby”! Do you moonlight by writing descriptions for rose catalogues? :slight_smile:

Bob in New Olreans

You’re certainly not going to get a strong red from Scarlet Moss by crossing it with any of the Out of Yesteryear hybrids, and that includes Fakir’s Delight. This line of hybrids will wash out the color of any other parent you use it on.

Scarlet Moss is quite capable of breeding strong reds, you just need to hit it with the right thing. I would try putting Hot Cocoa on it, for example, or any other STRONG orange.

Sound’s like Paul knows whereof he speaks. But might I add a thought here. My impression is that “scarlet” depends on having both yellow and red (cyanins) together. And perhaps some pelargonidin too. Think of Austrian Copper or Condesa de Sastago with their brilliant top surface. A small dose of red on yellow makes old-fasioned orange like Mrs Oakley Fisher. Perhaps you can get a clue by going back to one of the papers on rose pigments where all the constituents of a lot of named cultivars are given in % dosages. Some papers from Netherlands (deVries?),and Japan, and a review in Angewandte Chemie out of Germany I think dealt with this. It might be useful to get those papers posted to the RHA site if we could get permissions.

When you look at Scarlet Moss’s petals individually, they have a lot of what looks like peonin in the foreground+background layers and a white interior.

If one considers that Dortmund is a dual parent of this rose, it makes sense. Dortmund is loaded with peonin and a minor amount of pelargonidin (prolly from a red-orange polyantha source).

Also, from what I have learned, Scarlet Moss makes a shy seed parent. The pollen is much more readily usable than the low amount of seed it may or may not set in a summer.

Raven x Scarlet Moss may give one very saturated red minis and shrublets.

Preference x Scarlet Moss may give one very saturated shrublets.

Trumpeter x Scarlet Moss may bring out more scarlet tones. Also, Coffee Bean x Scarlet Moss may bring out scarlet toned minis.

It might be the climate, but Scarlet Moss sets seed very well in my garden & it germinates normally. Pairing it with Hot Cocoa gets some red offspring, producing pale peachy flowerbuds that darken up by the time the flower opens.

I think it’s an advantage that Scarlet Moss produces pale, peach or coral offspring with some partners.

I looked inside the petals… they looked like a neon orange sort of color. I hadn’t expected this… but it pleases me that at least it’s not an off-creamy color like Fakir’s Delight. I hope that it blooms tomorrow so I may post a picture. It maybe a single or semi-single miniature.

So, instead of a rose with Scarlet Moss’ coloring but Fakir Delight’s form, I got the single form of SM and some sort of yellow coloring from FD.

this is my very first successful moss rose-- I’ve raised mossless roses from mossed roses, and this one is exciting me.

This early spring, the foilage looked very bad… full of mildew. But, it seems to do better now.

Enrique,

Mosses (at least here) seem to be very prone to mildew their first two years, but then seem to grow out of it. At least, this has been the trend so far, and I hope it continues!

Well, I’m talking about the actual leaves. I pardon a moss’ mildewing on the buds because I’ve seen so many mildewy buds that I pardon all mossy roses for that proneness. But the leaves… some are clearly better than others. Scarlet Moss is mildew free in this respect, and so is Dresden Doll.

Here’s a picture of the Scarlet Moss X Fakir’s Delight seedling. The color is actually quite lovely now that I see it fully open. I’m thinking of using this seedling to breed with Mel Hulse, to see if I can bring the old garden flower form.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/plant/pl.php?n=66796

I’d keep that one around for sure :slight_smile:

What great mossing!

I will try to circulate this one to some of you guys so that you may try to hybridize from it. I think there is enough material to propogate in the fall for next year…

I want to see if I can breed this with Mel Hulse and get back the old garden bloom form and some sort of red coloring.

Indeed, the moss is nice on this one. I hope it will prove to be a good parent. I may try to breed this with my seedling of Prospero X Goldmoss (which is mossless, but very hip fertile.)

Enrique,

What is the color of your Prospero x Goldmoss? I’ve got a Graham Thomas x Goldmoss that I’m waiting for it to bloom. Hoping for some kind of yellow-ish coloring.

It’s a bicolor, a beautiful shade of golden yellow on top and a strident hot pink on the other. It has the form of Goldmoss, and no fragrance.

It fades horribly… what’s worse, it holds on its dead heads like Goldmoss, and it gets “spotty.” (Just like Goldmoss.)

But, it makes a lot of hip, but with limited seed. But all of them will geriminate, so it maybe a useful parent for me.

This was a neglected seedling… it survived on its own. So, although its beauty is very brief (it has beauiful autumn blooms, though…) I think I will attempt to use it as a seed parent and hope that it will produce better offspring.

I hope you get something satisfactory from it Enrique.