[quote=Don]
If you are going to attempt cross-species hybrids with rosa then you should consider using spinosissimas.[/quote]
Dear Don,
can you please explain the backround of your advice?
Christian
Chemicals!
I wouldn’t lose sleep over the virus scare thing.
I’m not really into “exchanges” on this site, but I will say this much and then let this one rest…
A more realistic “pathogen/virus promulgation” situation already exists in bad nursery (grafting / budding) propagation practices.
As for the theoretical creation of some weird new virus/pathogen by means of this almost impossible hybridization event, consider the following overgeneralized risk analysis:
If you consider the infinitesimally low chance of ever even achieving a weird hybrid like this, and then factor into that the chance of there being some pathogen present, then factor the probability of that pathogen transferring succesfully through sexual means, and then the chance probability that pathogen is harmful to “whatever”, and then the you are talking an extremely unlikely probability event. The probability would be so small it would approximate the risk in nature… i.e close to zero.
Anyways by hybridizing two particular roses, there might also be a (near zero) chance probability of creating some weird new virus /pathogen as well !!
The concern raised seems not to be a practical / realistic one.
Rant over.
:O)
I don’t recall that cross. He did cross a rose and an apple (not satisfactory), and raspberry x strawberry. This was also a dead end, but pretty darned fascinating just the same.
Hybrids sometimes become more fertile as they age. Burbank was far too busy to wait around, so we’ll never know whether his raspberry x strawberry hybrids would have produced seeds when they reached the age of 10 or 20 or 100 years.
What other pigments have you seen reported? All I came up with on a quick search are: Cyanidin-3-glucoside, cyanidin-3-rutinoside, pelargonidin-3-glucoside, and pelargonidin-3-rutinoside. Harborne and Hall (1964)
Christian, my advice is based on Koopman et al, AFLP MARKERS AS A TOOL TO RECONSTRUCT COMPLEX RELATIONSHIPS: A CASE STUDY IN ROSA (ROSACEAE) , American Journal of Botany 95(3): 353–366. 2008. In particular I use the Bayesian tree, figure 3.
Now that I have stopped to peek at the tree again it seems that probably hugonis, omeiensis and foetida are even better candidates based on genetic distance, and that it makes a difference which Rubus species you start with too.
I regard foetida as a more primitive spin, and I think that the spins as we know them might actually be ancient hybrids with, maybe, gallica so that the genetic distance on a phylogenetic tree removes them to some point closer to moderns.
Of course, what we really need is a network map, not a tree because roses are very nearly all hybrids and you cannot represent genetic relatedness usefully enough for to extract breeding clues with a tree.
Karl I think it might have been the raspberry x strawberry cross I was thinking of.
CROSSING ROSES WITH OTHER PLANTS
Using genetic biotechnology, Andy Roberts (a University of
East London plant scientist) is doing research on crossing roses
with blackberries and cherries. His goal is to transfer the
blackspot immunity of these two plants to modern roses.
According to the November 18 th, 1995 issue of The Economist
(page 96), "The only plant that has been produced so far is
attractive enough, but has not inherited their disease immunity.
Mr. Roberts explains: A lot of chromosomes of the cherry and
the blackberry were lost when the two types of cells were put
together, so we don’t have a direct hybrid. There are about
50,000 genes in a plant, and in different hybrids different
genes come across, so we’re pumping up the number of hybrids to
try to find one where disease resistance has transferred. The
trouble is that, even if we find it, it may not look much like a
rose, though they all do so far. We’re in an interesting
scientific stage but you can’t expect to hit the bull’s eye
straight away."
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