R. nutkana: what is going on here?

If you made a cross of ‘Golden Angel’ X R. nutkana and got 25 seedlings, all of which were about to flower at 3" tall or smaller, what conclusion would YOU come to? I’m inclined to think these are not actually hybrids at all. It seems very unlikely that they’d all bloom with juvenile remontancy. Opinions?

I’d look at the foliage for signs of hybridity and wait and see how many pink singles you get. I’ll bet at least some are hybrids.

Considering Golden Angel is triploid and nutkana is purportedly hexaploid it’s hard to know what to think in terms of ploidy.

I’ve reported getting repeat flowering first generation species hybrids. I know it’s happened with others before.

It wouldn’t surprise me at all but it would surprise me if a whole population were remontant.

I’ve also seen some of these types of hybrids bloom quickly as juveniles and promptly die shortly thereafter.

Do you have pictures of the foliage?

I’m leaning towards the possibility that they are mostly apomictics, but who knows. There might be a couple of nutkana hybrids in there as well. No, I don’t have photos of the foliage yet. These are all still very small and as yet have not developed enough foliage to show much character. Juvenile plants all tend to look the same and do not show much character till later in the year. In other words, at a glance these all look like any other crop of ‘Golden Angel’ seedlings.

I’ll go take a closer look and see if I can spot anything that might suggest nutkana influence. If so, I will take photos.

What makes you think they may be apomictic instead of from self pollination? Aren’t apomictics essentially identical to the mother plant? If there is variation in the seedlings or variation from the mother I would suspect that they are from self pollination.

I have a number of seedlings from Hot Wonder x William Baffin that are not showing much or any influenc from WB. They seedlings look similar but not identical to Hot Wonder. There is also good deal of variation in color between the seedlings. So I’m inclined to think they are from self pollination.

Paul

I’m leaning towards the possibility that they are mostly apomictics, but who knows.

I wish I had a macro lens so I could illustrate the dual male-female gametic tissue on the peripheral pistils of Golden Angel. I’d bet that removing just those pistils would eliminate apomictics. I have started to do that myself, in fact.

I may just be inexperienced with minis but the Golden Angels that you gave me last year are amazingly floriferous plants.

Its possible these are self pollinations, sure…but I am SO careful to remove anthers from ‘Golden Angel’ before they release pollen. shrug We’ll see.

Don,

Yes, ‘Golden Angel’ is a remarkably generous bloomer and will continue to flower even when it is developing a substantial crop of hips.

I thought I had removed the anthers before they released their pollen on my cross also. My seedlings are still pretty small yet as they were damaged by a late freeze. So I can’t tell yet if they have any pollen parent influence in them or not.

Roger had a problem with several of the Lim roses releasing their pollen early and self pollinating.

Link: www.rosehybridizers.org/forum/message.php?topid=20566#20571