Ploidy of three roses varieties

General Discussion
1

Hello,

Would someone know the ploidy of these roses:

-Safrano

-Victor Verdier (not Mme Victor Verdier)

-Captain Christy

Thanks,

Pierre Lauwers.

2

Safrano is a counted diploid Tea.

The others I can only guess.

Victor Verdier being Jules Margotin (advanced HP) x Safrano is probably triploid may be tetraploid if S pollen was unreduced.

The later is quite certain as with after HMF 9130 progenies 50 of which directly VV is a prolific and influent parent. Very, very few triploid have such progenies.

Captain Christy from VV x Safrano may be anything ( even aneuploid that is with a chromosome number differing from 7 and its multiole) but tri or tetraploidy are more likely.

Here triploidy or aneuploidy are likely as with only one non sport possible progeny it is sterile or allmost in a very prolific family.

Hope this help.

Pierre

3

Hello Pierre,

Thanks for the info.

These three roses are yes very close togheter, and a key to the comprehension of late HPs.

You say triploids with large descents are rare.

Gloire des Rosomanes, however, is a triploid, and its descent is the hugiest imaginable with roses.

Moreover, it is the origin of the biggest HP lineage.

The more lucky cross ever?

Best wishes,

Pierre (Lauwers)

4

Key triploid may have a large descent but then direct progeny is usually reduced.

Gloire des Rosomanes is quite typical with a total descent of 4530 of which only 15 are direct.

Another point Victor Verdier 1859 is precisely a Key breeder for HT, being the very first bred true HT. A more prolific and influent parent rose. Even before the class was named and the much more famed La France 1867 bred. The later direct or claimed so descent is 35 and total 7573 when it was largely known as an extraordinary rose when VV was not.

Best regards

5

Hello Pierre Rutten,

From the 4530 total descent of Gloire des Rosomanes are, so far I know, only 6 direct.GdR was a seed parent for Bardou Job, G

6

Hello,

According to my data, GDR was pollen parent to Gr

7

Pierre,

Your data are correct: GdR was pollen parent to Gr

8

Hello Martin,

Very surprising to me. If I don’t deadhead carefully, my GDR set hips 100%.

Where do your clone come from? A french friend had a very weak one. Mine comes from Schultheis in Germany. It is monstruously vigourous, start from cuttings like weed…

I have now 6 plants, 5 from cuttings. According to german friends it is winter hardy to -28

9

Pierre,

I found them in a local garden center a few years ago. They growing also vigorous, but not like yours. Flowering is exuberant all summer long. Interesting to compare this plants. I will be happy to receive your cuttings. Here is my mail address: martin.vissers@belgacom.net When you contact me I will give you my coordinates.

Regards,

Martin

10

Where do you find these kind of datas ?
What means Gr ?

11

Where do you find these kind of datas ?
What means Gr ?[/quote]

Andre,

Over the years this forum has changed providers and servers several times, and parts of some posts have been lost, and some files that were attached are not available now. The “Gr” referred to is probably truncated from Gruss an Teplitz. 'Gruss an Teplitz' Rose

If you are interested in knowing parentages of rose hybrids–and it seems you are–you should visit the world’s finest online rose information sharing site, Roses, Peonies, Clematis and everything rose, peony and clematis related.. Basic membership is free, and if you want to take full advantage of the site, the cost for Premium membership is minimal in comparison to the value of that membership. As a member at any level, you can learn from others and share your experiences with others, a benefit for everyone. To learn about your options at HMF, go to HelpMeFind Membership Features

Peter

12

Thank you Peter !

I know HMF but I’m not able to sign in. When I try to, I reach this page : My Member Profile but can’t find any “sign up button above”. If you have a direct link to sign in, that would be appreciated.

13

[quote=“Andre33”]Thank you Peter !

I know HMF but I’m not able to sign in. When I try to, I reach this page : My Member Profile but can’t find any “sign up button above”. If you have a direct link to sign in, that would be appreciated.[/quote]

Andre,

Write to Support at HMF. You’ll get the help you need.

Peter

14

Andre, you may have already gotten the help that you need on this, but here is another link that may take you directly to the beginning of the sign up process.

https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/userFrm.php?frmNo=9

Tom