plant patent help

I am trying to find a list of roses by name with their patent number, more recent than MR6 which I have, but I’m only really concerned with up to about 1970. I am trying to identify in patents the parents of Gordon Von Abrams roses. He did disclose some I know of prior to MR6 but there were a bunch that were PPAF at that time. Is there a comprehensive listing of names and patents? I’ve spent all afternoon with Google & Co. trying to chase this down.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Did you go on Google more and get to the Google Patent search page and then go “Advanced”?

The Advanced lets you limit years of search, persons, plants, and some other stuff.

Below is that portal page.

You don’t want to put too many constraints on your search to begin with…years Rosa and maybe a rose name.

Another thing is that the search engines are scans and can be stupid…that is sometimes because of type sizes, e’s get read as o’s especially when you remember (I do, because I used to use a manual typewriter) that multiple copies have degraded letters, the more carbon paper copies were made.


Even if you can find the patent, some of the pre-1990s patents have had horrible image documentation. So, all that is recorded is some half-beeeep image copy of one partial page.

Thanks for the suggestion but only one comes up with assignee dering. I know that’s wrong as I found more by other wandering ways. Essentially all of von abrams roses were introduced by P & D. I found nothing with von abrams as inventor. I will tinker with the search a bit. But all I was hoping for was a MR list maybe at ARS.

Larry, Modern Roses 9 also has a list of patents indexed to names.

Either HelpMeFind or the Modern Roses database shows the breeding of almost every Von Abrams rose along with the the Plant Patent numbers for those that were patented. ( ‘Splendor,’ one of the 52 roses shown in the MR database as bred by Von Abrams, was actually bred by Fremont Bernard Abrams. A correction is in process.)

Seventeen of the 51 Von Abrams were patented. An advanced search on HMF will sift out the patented Von Abrams roses. Each patented rose already shows the lineage on HelpMeFind (now that they’ve been updated).

Thanks so much for the assistance. For some reason the patents search engines are rather quirky. I found a few, Peter Harris found the rest (of the 17 that you mention) using who know what tricks. But what name goes with PP2664 was my remaining qn. I was working from MR6 because MR8 did not have a patents list and I assumed it had gone by the wayside (and wouldn’t reappear). Our U library is not open to let me check MR 9 until Monday. I knew that HMF had pedigrees on some, and of course MR has some too. But I was wondering about the other 30 or so that were listed in MR6 as PPAF. Maybe that was a bluff. I was hoping to shortcut the effort but evidently there is no easy way to satisfy a weird curiosity like mine. A few patents give the code name (number)of some unnamed seedlings which indicates the year the cross originated. I was trying to relate that to the von Abrams and Hand article on germination by pedigree. In my estimation that is a very important article. I had mostly ignored it earlier but on rereading I see that it tells us a lot about germ behavior.

Based on the article, and the posted pedigrees, he must have had a really large program for a few years because most of the crosses mentioned in the article never showed up in any introduced plant and they each represented more than 5000 seeds.

Yes, none of the patent search engines works well to search by inventor. Google patents used to work better. The USPTO search engine is a lot of work just to learn.

PP 2664 is the patent for Trade Wind. An “Easter Egg” search feature of HMF is the ability to search by plant patent number. Search for PP followed by a space and the number. So using the usual search menu, search for PP 2664.

I have lists of all USA rose plant patents issued up to early 2009. It’s nothing more than a USPTO data dump using the plant classification scheme. It will frustrate you because it isn’t necessarily cross-referenced to rose names. You’re welcome to it, if you’d like to compare it to the rose patent lists in Modern Roses 6 and 9 to look for missing patents.

Send me an email if you’d like the list.

Thanks, Cass. Apparently the e-mail function on the forum has been captured by MSN. That’s all I can get when I try to respond directly, to you or others. I had tracked down Trade Winds just a few min ago in MR9. Sure didn’t know of the search in HMF, or I’d have used it days ago. I’ve concluded by scanning the list in MR9 that the Von Abrams PPAFs never really came through, or never got to ARS. Also it seems that some of his products were not in trade for very long at all, vanished by time of MR9.