Beware of the listings of the parents given for classical roses. Many of them could actually be unknown mother X unknown father. The introducer may have just guessed at the parents or chose parents that he/she thought would help sell the rose.
Of course, Henry, those are definitely considerations and in quite a few cases, the reality. Then, you have those who deliberately made the crosses, but the rose had other ideas and self pollinated or acted with other “contamination”. I’m positive there are also cases where the proper information has been deliberately mis represented so no one could “duplicate” their results, as if that was even remotely genetically possible. There have been, and are, those who consider parentage information “proprietary”, which, of course, is their right. Crappy, but their right, non the less.
Thank you Kim, Neil and Henry for the input.
(I wish there was chat on this Forum) I plan to take your advice Kim. I have used the Free membership on “help Me find” and it has been a very useful tool. I’ll also look up the articles you mention.
Neil you mentioned in one of the other threads your intrest had changed since you started breeding roses. Do you like the red HT’s because of their productivity, Do they tend to be hardier than other HTs? I’m just curious, I like to see what draws people to a paticular variety or rose type.
I have a limited amount of space so I only have Peace, Tea clipper, Twilight Zone and Watercolors. Not any old varieties which I eventually hope to get into. I do have acess to Josph’s Coat , Don Juan and a wild pink rose I found growing in a swamp Years ago (the plant is hardy as blackberry and is just fine in our soggy soil) I’d really like to find out what it is if thats even possible. The plant has reddish cains and small pail leaves, I planted it in my parents back yard years ago. My question is it even a good idea to attemp to cross a wild rose with a modern variety? How can I tell the diffrence between triploid and diploid?
You’re welcome Lafllin. It CAN be worthwhile crossing a wild rose with moderns. Louis Stoddard did a bit of that back in the 1970s with Suffulta. Some of his results sounded really interesting, unfortunately they appear to be lost. Many of us here have done similarly with some pretty interesting results, too. My DLFED seedlings have been quite fun and have resulted in some beautiful results, both for me and when Paul Barden played with them.
Determining ploidy of a rose can be accomplished by counting the sets under a microscope. For more than you’d think, the information is already posted on HMF. While interesting, it may not be all that necessary to be concerned with in breeding. Some very interesting results have resulted from roses which weren’t supposed to be able to produce them.
Kim, I like the brilliant shades of pink from your cross.
I feel kind of silly, I used google to see if I could find out what rose I have and I came right up… rose pisocarpa or swamp rose, not only is it located in the Northwest, the rose fits the description perfectly; red stems that taper downward, reaches 6 ft, likes swamps but can handel dryer soils, it is immune to blackspot, sends up suckers.
Thank you, Lafllin. Don’t feel silly, congratulations! I’m glad you got your identification.
Sorry about the delay Laflin but the rush is on right now. I’m down to the last 59 baggies, a lot of F1s and some good breeders.
I’ve only had the one red HT that was productive. But now have seeds from Mr. Lincoln’s F1s, Let Freedom Ring, Red Masterpiece and others. They are no better than other Hts. You get the good, the bad and the ugly but if you raise enough you can get some of merit.
The more exposure you get you can change. The neighbor had a Sweet Intoxication that grew on me the more I looked and they gave it to me when they moved. Also John J gave me more than 25 rooted plants, his own crosses, and some of those are looking real good.
Soggy soil can be good. I’m having luck just sticking into soil with no hormones in the spring or fall. You know those you don’t have that just happen to be laying around.
Neil
Kim,
Tom told me he got the double recessive yellow bit from Ralph. It’s an odd way of describing the situation. As we have since learned, yellow is recessive to strong perfume. That is, we may either see the carotenes as yellow pigment, or smell them as carotenoid perfume. The mauve coloring is due to cyanin (not present in Foetida) combined with co-pigment(s) from that species.
I’m curious about the pithy stems of some Foetida-derivatives, such as Grey Pearl, Angel Face and Kordes’ Perfecta. Has anyone studied the inheritance and linkage of this unfortunate character?
Karl
One of the worst of the soft pithed types is the terrible Fantan. It is actually significantly more difficult to propagate and maintain than Grey Pearl. Both have the “death gene” where every bud breaks into growth and flower just before the bush turns olive green and collapses. Clair Martin used to say anything from J&P with “Masterpiece” in its name was sure to be soft pithed. Sun scald is terrible with that type of bush here. I can well imagine them being much more prone to freezes, too.
Yeah, only Grand and Red Masterpiece were not soft-tissued. Even when I was a novice, I knew Golden Masterpiece looked “sick”.