Obtaining old Articles from American Rose Annuals

I am wondering how I might be able to obtain two articles from past American Rose Annuals from 1924; The Story of the Gigantea Hybrids by Alister Clark and 1932; Rosa Gigantea and Its Allied Species?

I’m interested in learning about R. gigantea and how it behaves in breeding so would love these articles… I’ve also been looking at the F1 crosses with gigantea and there seems to be a spread of singles and double… but something I don’t understand is a plant called ‘Improved Cecile Brunner’ (ICB) or ‘Rosy Morn’? Its seed parent is listed as ‘Dainty Bess’ and it’s pollen parent gigantea. Both plants are singles yet this rose is very double and David Zlesak stated that double was a dominant trait. I also don’t understand how it can be that ICB can be a low shrub when climbing appears to be dominant… I would have thought that in an F1 cross with gigantea ALL progeny would be climbers… It doesn’t make any sense to me ???


the first article is available on net:


Happy new Year,

Ilya, France

Simon, I suspect that Duehrsen left out a generation when providing the lineage for ‘Rosy Morn’. It was not unusual for hybridizers of that period to do so. Ralph Moore has also been known to edit lineages.

I suspect the lineage is more likely Dainty Bess x R. gigantea x self, not that remontant first generations species hybrids aren’t produced. It does happen on occasion and more often than I would have thought possible.

For what it’s worth I’ve raised a few weak growing OP seedling from Rosy Morn though all were discarded.

Thanks for the link Ilya. Happy New Year to you, and everyone else, too :slight_smile:

Robert, I’m not interested in ‘Rosy Morn’… but am in gigantea… I was just confused by the way it was documented to breed.

Hi Simon, I’m interested in gigantea too though I’ve found it’s not particularly well adapted to my area.

You’ll note I’ve a few gigantea hybrids in the works with more on the way. I’d like to eventually integrate ‘Rosy Morn’ into the mix. I suspect it’s triploid.

You’re in Rancho Mirage, California, aren’t you? What’s your climate like if you don’t mind me asking (apart from hot and dry :wink: )? I’m a bit worried it’s not going to do well for me here either because we have a relatively short growing season and we have regular freezes to -7

Simon, I am in Rancho Mirage, CA which is California’s low subtropical desert region. I am adjacent to Palm Springs, CA.

Oddly enough we do not have water rationing her of any kind, though attempts are being made to convert plantings to more appropriate types of low water use plants.

The Indian form of R. gigantea wouldn’t flower here, at least in the time I had it. No doubt it wanted to get a great deal larger than it was but then again the same clone flowered very well in Santa Cruz, CA from a young age. I don’t think it appreciated my latitude and lack of humidity here. The near hybrids do ok, but only really look good here in Winter like most Teas.

I suspect gigantea might tolerate your conditions there better than one would think. I’d give it a shot. I also think it would endure drought once established though no doubt it would just try to persist till it had adequate water to look happy again.

The Clark hybrids as a whole were not particularly good doers here. They had a window in the Winter and early Spring that they seemed happy, but then most things are happy here during that window of time.

I’m hoping my plant of “Secunda” will flower this Spring. It’s a proven seed parent and carries the gene for repeat.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=52737&tab=1

Simon, if you’ll send me your email address, I’ll send you the 1932 article.


Thanks Peter. My email address is voorwinde5@hotmail.com (the email function here seems to be disabled).