I don’t know the definition of “skimpy” fertility. I grow Mutabilis in a cold climate, so it’s down to stubs every year. It gets gets covered with many small hips, but it’s near another diploid.

Happy Chappy looks interesting. I wonder if it is fertile?

Lydia, although Mutabilis sets many hips, the hips contain few seeds, and the seeds don’t germinate well. I think that is what people mean by “skimpy” fertility.

Happy Chappy is quite hip-happy. I collected a ton of them off a plant this fall, but so far none of the seeds has germinated. The plant is apparently rather susceptible to BS in my climate which is a shame. It’s a fun plant though it does fade rather quickly in hot weather.


For what it is worth…I posted on helpmefind that I’ve had a Chireno for three winters now…it has been remarkably hardy here with little to no dieback…can read the longer version on helpmefind if you want but basically, I really like it and am very impressed with it.


I just noticed the question from RosariumRob about whether my Plaisanterie seeds germinated last year. All of my seed were killed by a fungus last year. I did do some crosses with Plaisanterie last summer. Those seeds came out of the fridge a few days ago and haven’t started germinating yet.

Thanks Jim. I ordered it this year and it is slowly leafing out at the moment. Nice foliage :slight_smile: Hope we don’t get an easter-freeze.


Today I had two germinations from

Plaisanterie X (Mons. Tillier X Mutabilis)

and three from

(Mons. Tillier X Mutabilis) X Plaisanterie

Ooh! Good ones!

I just got Amber Cloud x Mutabilis.

Well, this thread reappeared, so I’m just gonna throw out a dumb question…

How difficult is it to create a mutable rose? What if, for instance, one took a china with darkening red (say Archduke Charles for instance) and crossed it with a fading yellow (of which too many exist)? Is it not likely it might yield a mutable yellow-to-red rose? I’m frankly surprised that there aren’t a lot more mutable roses on the market. I find the effect of the blends on a single bush to be rather charming. I’m just not convinced that mutabilis, per se, is the parent I would necessarily seek out for such (for the reasons I gave nearly 13 months ago!)

Does anyone have experience with mutable roses?

John Sheldon is interested in these roses.

Yes, Phillip, I do. Unfortunately a lot of them “muddle” their colors, which makes them hard to work with unless the combo is right.

Off the top of my head, Redgold, Sheer Elegance, Playboy can pass this one. There are a lot more, but you get the point.

I do wish there were more like Redgold, only more modern-- ones that do a complete change of gold to orange to a red finish. Playboy comes sorta close, but fades out and leaves this very strange red picotee (evident in Betty Boop).

I’ve got a seedling (Billy

One of my last years seedlings, light yellow with mauve stripes(Gingersnap X Purple Tiger) had stripes all last year. I took cuttings in the Fall and started and kept them inside under lights. When they bloomed inside they lost all their stripes and were a pure light yellow. when I put them outside at the begining of Feb. their stripes were back. Explain that. I will have to do some more testing. I have three op seedlings of Mutabilis about three weeks old and I am hoping they will be remortant.


Patrick, if you watch Scentimental throughout an entire year, you will notice a huge variation in patterns.

Many roses (notably of china heritage) require sunlight to develop their red color, so I’m not real surprised. Double Delight, for instance, is a white rose when grown under artificial lighting.

Mauve and yellow sounds like an interesting combo. Reds crossed with yellows sometimes throw purples, as well as oranges or coffee colors. I’m surprised you got mauve on yellow instead of coffee or orange/red. That’s a color combo I’ve only fantasized about – never thought it very feasible. (I’ll bet you could sell that one in Louisiana pretty well where the Louisiana State Univ. mascot is a tiger, and the colors are purple and gold!) I’d love to see a picture of that rose, Patrick.

Here it is Philip. It is also very fragrant.

Very attractive, Patrick. Very nice form and coloration – and fragrant to boot? This is still from a relatively young plant, no? I gather it wants to be cluster-flowered?

Health? Bloom size? Plant size and habit?

It certainly has a beautiful bloom. And I gather it is on its own roots?

(The LSU mascot’s name is “Mike the Tiger” if you’re looking for a name! LOL. Might get attention in Shreveport, LA!)

Very nice.

BTW, aren’t you the “po’ cajun” who also calls LA home?

Have others gotten this color combo on a seedling??

Thanks Philip. I hate to get off the subject of Mutabilis but I’m still waiting to see if my three Mutabilis seedlings will bloom or not. This is an own root very well shaped small floribunda in its first year. The bloom size is about 2 1/2 to 3 inches, I never measured them. Disease resistance is what you would expect from this cross, Purple tiger is about the worst blackspot magnet there is but this seedling is as good as Gingersnap as far as disease resistance. I have it next to daybreaker which is very blackspot prone here and it is as good or better than daybreaker. I live in La fi yette.


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