Mr Nash or Zeus

Has anyone used either of these as a parents? How is rebloom and diseases resistance? I understand that “Mr. Nash” may be the old Doubloons. Thanks.

“Mr. Nash” has been a poor seed setter for me when crossed with other things, and most of the seeds do not germinate. It is also a serious Blackspot offender in my garden, so I favor other choices.

Regards,

Paul

“Mr. Nash” blackspotted very badly in the upper Midwest, too, and really wasn’t hardy at all. It also definitely isn’t ‘Doubloons’ or any other setigera hybrid. I was told once that the real ‘Doubloons’ might be growing at the Missouri Botanical Garden, but if that’s true someone needs to sweet-talk some cuttings from it and distribute the plant before it disappears forever for one reason or another. It’s RRD territory, and that alone is enough.

I’ve not had disease problems on my plant of Mr. Nash, but I don’t have much–if at all–disease pressure. It sets lots of OP hips. I made one cross on it a year or so ago using Rugelda pollen. I got decent hip set, but passed the seeds along. I know there were germinations, but I

Thanks all for the input. Too bad about the BS problems on Mr. Nash. You are right Stefan, someone should obtain some cuttings from MBG. It would be a shame to see Doubloons go extinct. Have any of you grown Casino and have any recomendations concerning that one?

I can relate to being out of the rose stuff myself Joan. I’m back to it after about a 3 years absence…I almost forgot how exciting all of this is and I’m glad to be back at it. Your Mr. Nash x Rugelda cross sounds like an interesting one. Hopefully you will get positive feedback from those who grew seeds from that cross.

I had no idea Doubloons was in any danger. I have one large bush and also a smaller one in a pot. I have used it in crosses the past couple years. It is fertile both ways. It gets a lot of blackspot and is not hardy below 0 F but when it blooms it is attractive. Seedlings by rebloomers will rebloom so it is not dominantly once-blooming.

Larry, I’m surprised to learn that Doubloons is not hardy below 0 degrees F given the parentage. Do you get any repeat bloom at all?

On helpmefind.com references, it lists Doubloons as medium yellow or gold. and the pictures on there are apricot. Also someone commented in the comment section that the references all list Doubloons as yellow and the rose now in commerse is apricot. Maybe the real rose is lost or at the Missouri Botanical Garden as stated by Stefan.

Patrick

Maybe. Color coding has never been historically accurate.

The color does look apricot like in the pic. I checked under lineage and there are hundreds of roses that have some Doubloons blood in them. I’m surprised that this one is still not offered. Maybe BS is too much of a problem.

Goldilocks, one one the first five roses Ive ever grown, was bred from this. I remember is lasting one year before I shoveled. It was as ugly as sin. But what I distinctly remembered was that it lost it’s foliage from blackspot ASAP. I cant imagine that Doobloons is much better in regards to disease.

BS, Probably the reason it’s no longer offered. It would be nice to have it located in a public garden somewhere if just for historical purposes.

Yeah, I agree.

I am the recipient of Joan’s Mr Nash and Rugelda crossed seeds. I don’t recall offhand the pollen / seed parents, but will vouch for pretty good germination, and generally good health of seedlings. The puppies started germinating in very hot muggy weather after only a four months stratification. I do not know how many seeds were in the ziplock bag, but well over a dozen germinated. Of these, I still have 5 going strong. Health is above average, though it would be absurd to give any further statistically meaningless evaluations. Only one has been blooming, and honestly, it is a not-so-impressive semi-double white. The seedlings have not been pampered in the least, and I am hoping that with cooler weather I can grow them on and start some real evaluations of their behavior. At least one, not surpisingly, gives me the impression that it wants to be a monster. It has been very healthy too, exceding most of my “dawn” hybrids as well as most of the “earthkind” roses for resistance, but no blooms yet.

I had been very interested in attempting to use the setigeras for yellows (if and when I can actually do some crosses of my own) having fallen in love with the form of some setigera/pernetiana hybrids (Jean Lafitte and Long John Silver). I was thus excited at the prospect of growing a hybrid with possible setigera/yellow genes. (Mr. Nash as a synonym for Doubloons, listed as a setigera…) though a later post from Henry Kuska did not exactly give disease resistance as an attribute to be expected from the setigera lines. I had wondered/hoped that the Rugosa line might reinforce some resistance, though I doubt that Rugelda maintains much of the rugosa resistance.

I will keep all posted, albeit with the caveat that I do not have excessive experience to provide objective evaluations.

Apologies, Joan, if I’ve been being a stranger. I dropped you a line a while back and didn’t hear back, so I’m not sure if I was using the right link…

Link to setigera descendants below.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=5424&tab=21&lstTyp=64

The Doubloons that I have was from Melvin Wyant of Mentor Ohio. I presume he got it direct from the breeder, located in the same city. Color is ambiguous, close enough to gold that the name is quite suitable. It has a lot of yellow, but also buff and gold, not what I’d call apricot. The flowers are cupshaped but large and opening flat later in the day. It roots relatively easily from cuttings and I believe I sent some out to people in the past. That’s how I happen to still have one in a pot. It is one of the most vigorous growing roses around with massive canes running to 10 ft in one season, starting relatively late, after the flowering period. I’ve never seen a second bloom cycle on it, but in crosses the seedlings do rebloom. It blackspots dreadfully in our climate if there is rain, which there usually is in May and June. The 0 F freezeback varies a little depending on duration and timing but we have a wild-swinging climate so there have been quite a few seasons with no flowers. Twenty years ago in Newton KS, one zone south, I saw a massive specimen that obviously made it through many winters and was not bothered by BS despite no spraying. So it varies. I appreciate it for the vigor although the prickles are massive and very sharp. It yields lots of pollen and accepts it well.

Hopefully Doubloons is not in danger because it is cleaned of virus and within the Plant Foundation Services collection of roses at UC Davis. Hopefully they have the original cultivar.

Link: fpms.ucdavis.edu/WebSitePDFs/Price&VarietyLists/RoseVarietyList.pdf

Thanks David. It is great to hear that Doubloons is not in danger of becoming extinct. UC Davis has quite a list of cultivars that are in their collection. Thanks for providing the link.

This was one of Joan Monteith’s (Mr. Nash x Rugelda) (Nashrug) seedlings – this is the only one that I managed to keep long enough to get into the ground, and it was not the best of the lot, to be frank. I had a very high, and unexpectedly quick, germination rate from this cross.

The first of the seedlings were very vigorous with very full orange-blend colored blooms, but rapidly outgrew their little pots. (I was contending with issues from hurricane Katrina still at the time, and did not get to transplant in a timely manner.) As a consequence, this, significantly less vigorous seedling, was a lone survivor. It is either the one I nicknamed “Used Kleenex in Barbed-Wire” (having a pretty ratty-looking simple first bloom) or “Junkyard Dog” having wicked thorns, but not blooming for me initially. It was several years old before it at long last gave these blooms.

All of the seedlings had rather coarse (heavily toothed) foliage and wicked thorns. The warm colors came through in most of those first seedlings. I would presume that all were also quite hardy. This seedling did get a bit of BS and would be defoliated by the end of the season in my no-spray garden. It also stubbornly refused all attempts to root cuttings, and none of the crosses I did with it ever germinated. As far as that goes, I also thought the blooms kind of stank.

I had to leave it behind, per my realtor, when I listed my prior house, but while I would love to see the cross repeated, I don’t think this particular seedling had enough merit to justify moving anyway.
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Another photo showing a little of the color variation in this one.
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