Oh you’re fine, I was being hard on myself… and yes I am curious as to everything and sometimes it gets me in trouble, has always been that way (some things are harder to put back together than take apart).
Just making sure Jon. Did not want to offend anyone. My bother took apart everything mechanical when we were kids. Most of the time he could not get them back together.
Oh I went so far as to take apart the shower head, refrigerator, alarm clocks, my dads speakers…(he was pretty upset about that one). I get to be everyone’s ‘fix it’ person now though to pay for all that (whether I want to or not).
Today one seedling (out of twelve seeds) from a May 2007 cross of
Stellata mirifica x Veilchenblau
germinated.
… I am so happy. 
More than only one time I thought of throwing away the old substrates, but what I have learned this year is to wait, when the main work had already been done.
What does it cost just to wait a little longer?
A bit of space, whater and PATIENCE, … nothing more.
At least 100 seedlings - all in all - had germinated out of my 2007 seedling beds this year so far!
Feels like xmas … 
Grx,
Arno
I do not know if I would wait that long. Two years I think is my limit, but maybe if I had something I really wanted to see grow. You will have to keep use informed. So does it appear like it is a hybrid. Has it lost the unique leaf trait.
Hi Adam,
I don’t know anything about its leafs, we will see, also I haven’t made any fotos yet, as it rained here when I sat the seedling in a small greenhouse, outside an hour ago - so I had to hurry not to get wet.
So far only the primary two embryo leafs are visible, and they are still sticking together. Its a small seedling, but its pretty vivid in presence and colour, with a long root! I hope so it’ll come through.
It will be a hybrid, yes, - diploid, I guess as Veilchenblau is also diploid. …
The question is: will it survive and then will it be fertile?
It is my first so far surviving seedling of a Rosa subgenus-crossing
And as I saw for the Luis Lens seedlings from Stellata mirifica, fertility seems really NOT alsways to be a sure outcome for such odd crossings … .
Grx,
Arno
Treasure Trove, I was wondering about the first leaves because with species crosses sometimes you get apomix or a lot of self even with out crosses. At least from what I heard. So based on the rest of the family and not on actual experience I have a feeling that a cross with either one of the species in this subgenus a seedling showing leaf morphology that is different than the species would indicate success early.
One of my big interest is noting plants that will lead to success with this plant. That is why I was interested in what lead to Jon and your successful crosses. From the phylogeny trees, the genetic studies and a few crosses already done with this section. I have a feeling that the pimpinefoliae, cinnamomeae, or the synstylae sections will have the greatest rate of success. Now I have not seen a genetic tree that had either species of this subgroup but from morpology and pass crosses that worked I think it would fall on a genetic tree somewhere around many of these.
It will be a while before I will be able to do crosses of my own in this department but I am thinking of crosses with rugosa hybrids, multiflora hybrid, and woodsii. I am particularly found of the woodsii idea but I am a sucker for that species. Ultimately I would like to take the drought resistance that both species show and add on winter hardiness. In my area of the world most plants are lost to not enough water in winter than to actual cold alone. I am also curious how certain traits like the thorny hips, the leaf morphology, the weird dormancy initiation, and the bloom cycle are effected by crossing with other species. And with species like these that have been cut off from the rest of the family effectively because of natural barriers who knows what you will get in a cross. Because of the natural barriers these two species (discounting hulthemia because it is still uncertain where it belongs) are probably the purest species found in the rose kingdom. By pure I mean they probably has had very little out crossing with other species. I could be wrong about this. Good luck with your seedlings.
Hi Adam!
OK now I understood - apomixis should be no problem in roses (even not in the caninae if the good old Kruessmann is still right), if you breed, but the selfings of course are. …
You are right, the some of the first leaves should look different from pure stellata leaves, here.
But: What is stunning for me so far is the really tiny seedling itself!
I did a foto of it, a few minutes ago, together with a one Euro Cent Coin and I will post it … if I again find out how. Its a few years after I did similar picture postings here in the forum, but I’ll try.
And, believe me: The coin is NOT that big because of the greece induced inflation problem! ))
Grx,
Arno
PS: I don’t know how to manage, so here are the links, I put it on helpmefind.com
…
Hi!
Here are seedling fotos from two of three mirifica plants that germinated a couple of years here.
The first true leafs have got one part.
http://forum.planten.de/galerie/d/17689-3/st_mir1.jpg
My new seedling from 31.05.2010 has got three parts that form each of the first true leaves!
Here it is - a few hours ago.
http://forum.planten.de/galerie/d/144251-1/stellata_mir_x_veilchenblau3.jpeg
Also the colours are a bit more green and less with these soft violet tones.
All this might be a sign that it is a true hybrid, but so far im still not sure, of course.
Hope I don’t have to wait until its flowering the first time.
I hope the pictures will be shown now in the thread.
Greetings,
Arno
Sorry, my English needs an update, I wanted to say:
The interesting difference is, that the former three seedlings have got a single first true leaf. The new seedling from 2010 has got already compound first true leaves.
I hope now its better to understand … .
Grx,
Arno
I understood you… and it DOES look like it is a hybrid. Good luck with it, you’ll have to give us an update.
Hi Jon!
Thank you - yes I will update infos and pictures (I will LIKE to ), - and I hope the seedling will survive the first months. …
While the stellata mirifica mother plants flowered this year, I did about 80 crossings again (so far - there are still buds on it), also with wild species.
Normally I don’t like the direct mixing of hybrids and interesting special species like eg Stellata mirifca.
I prefer to cross in pure species first.
But there are extraordinary combinations, that MUST be done, aren’t there?
In my eyes, R. stellata mirifica x Veilchenblau is really one of them! The colour combinations let me hope to get veeery interesting lilac, lavender and mauve tones. Or simply: Something like “The blue rose”.
This year I did also R. stellata mirifica x Baby Faraux and
further combinations. … So: Something should happen - even if it happens three years later. …
Grx,
Arno
Here again the seedling of the 2007 cross R. stellata mirifica x Veilchenblau.
He shows his 3rd compound leaf now. Looks pretty like R. multiflora, doesn’t it? …
Grx!
Arno
Todays foto of the (still only hopefully suggested) parents - their flowers and their leaves.
So anyone can imagine easily how interesting this cross should be. …
Grx,
Arno
One of my books shows an even darker eye zone on R. stellata mirifica. Its interesting to see the zone “in person”. Is this an adaptation in some desert species?
At any rate, I love your idea. Its wise to use unconventional diploid species with known fertile modern diploids. I wish I had done similar with Rosa primula and Rosa roxburghii normalis when I used to have them. I hope your seedling(s) turn out fruitful
Thanks Jadae!
Yes, if one puts tetraploid hybrid pollen on it, the chances sink again, to get something with good fertility and also of a good look.
I have had a Sangerhausen R. stellata mirifica x R. multibracteata seedling of the Louis Lens crossings with stellata. Nice very little (!) light mauve flowers, but if you watch closer: It doesn’t build stamina and sometimes it has a hole in the middle, where the female parts should be.
Imagine! A hole. … I am tolerant, but: That looks really frustrating and ugly.
Perhaps its better not wanting too much in the first cross, thats my idea too. If the individuals crossed are of quite different genetic background, at least the ploidy should fit.
By the way, I thought also about your first topic: The light blotch on the stellata flower is possibly even not so light if you watch it with the eyes of a bee!
It could be even like a hulthemia bloth when observed in the ultraviolet spektrum (which bees can additionally percept)!
One should test it under UV Light influence. …
Grx!
Arno
PS: I built a tent for the (now 98) crossings for it rains the next days … .
As its not in my garden, but the garden of my parents, this was critically done under the eyes of my mother. She then said: You are an idiot!
))
Here it is: the Stellata mirifica Tippi!
\
Arno, I was thinking the same thing! I was wondering if it was an adaptation of some sort in extreme climates where UV is extreme to compete with other eye-catching UV hot spots… or something. Im not sure lol but I find I fascinating.
PPS: Perhaps the stellata mirifica has all or at least some similar genes like hulthemia for building that blotch. - And perhaps they will lead to “blotched” offspring too?
Further: A combination of hulthemia and stellata offspring should be interesting, anyway.
I tried some, we will see.
Grx,
Arno
now our postings just crossed.-:-))
Yes, the blotch is an adaption for sure - in the desert the plants stand not near together, so a pollinating insect needs help - in the form of position lights - the blotches on the flower petal bases.
They are like an emphasis, like an exclamation mark for the sentence: HERE is your lucky pollen!
Grx!
Arno
Wanted to give an update on my minutifolia. It has stopped blooming and all three hips fell within a week. It looks like it may be getting ready for siesta. Each hip had one tiny little seed. I’m not very hopeful for germination… I would expect maybe a 2% chance.
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