Not Europe but many of the european ones come here (Australia).
Have had most of Warners (what typically get called Ringo XXX in the USA)…nope, no significant fragrance, maybe the tiniest hint where you’re not sure if it’s real or you’re just imagining it because you want it to be real.
Vissers same situation
The Sweet Spots (which came from the babylon eyes, but which is which is not clear) nothing.
I was hoping the See You’s were going to release this year because See You In Pink was on trial and won awards here and others from the same trial have already released…maybe next year, if at all.
I think that just leaves Tantau’s Orienta series which haven’t come here (yet). They tend to mention fragrance but their health ratings aren’t perfect (eg Rose Orienta Farina online kaufen | Rosen Tantau )
@MidAtlas
I have Eyes for You, Raspberry Kiss (Bright as a Button) and Orienta Aylin.
Eyes for You definitely has the strongest fragrance of the three, it is very mild but not absent on the other two.
Blotch is very good on Aylin (anthers missing in this pic because I was checking for pollen; she does release some):
Thanks, I’m glad to hear that I’m not the only one who thinks that most of these are generally lacking in fragrance! (Sorry, I didn’t mean to exclude anyone in other regions from answering, especially considering the introduction of new European selections to North America is an oddly patchy affair.) The rose sold here as Ringo (Eye of the Tiger/Queen of Sheba/Cyrus to others) definitely has only that faint, generic hint of sweetness to it, assuming that you catch the blossoms at just the right time. I was also hoping that the Orienta series would offer more scent overall, but if Aylin is regarded as “moderate” in terms of fragrance, a recalibration of expectations may be in order. Aylin does look a lot like a “Ringo…” relation, come to think of it. I see that only Djamila is listed as having a “strong” fragrance at HelpMeFind. If that’s true, I wonder if it might not owe the scent to a background involving Eyes for You, considering its purple color.
There is a Belgian website called Filroses that sells quite a few hulthemias. Refreshingly, their ratings for fragrance are their own evaluation, NOT a copy-paste of the introducing company’s claims.
Eyes for You gets four stars for fragrance, it’s the only hulthemia that does.
Orienta Leila and Aladin get three.
Orienta Magnolia, Eye of the Tiger, and Raspberry Kiss get two.
Orienta Djamila, Blushing Babylon Eyes, Smiling Eyes, as well as all three of their roses from the Kordes See You series, get only one star for fragrance.
All the other Hulthemias they sell get zero stars.
Of course fragrance varies depending on site, climate and personal nose, but it seems it’s one of the points that could still be improved in the Hulthemia line. I’m kind of disappointed the new Kordes ones hardly have any scent either, but I guess their focus is on health first.
Also wanted to add here that there are two additional Hulthemia hybrids recently introduced by Spek roses in the Netherlands.
These are very elusive, the first one “Eye Love You” is not listed on HMF but is available from Dutch website Tuincentrum Lottum. Described as 50cm tall, not fragrant. The code is not given. Pic from the website:
The second is “Eye Need You”, sold in New Zealand by Amore roses. Described as 85cm tall, strong sweet tea fragrance. This one is on HMF, code SPEKbeed. Pic from Amore roses website:
Adding two more here, from Harkness.
Interestingly, it seems that while continuing to work with Hulthemia descendants, Harkness has stopped calling them that and is now just selling them as “shrub roses” or “climbers”.
It brings to mind a question I had been asking myself about this class: how far away from the original can we get until it stops counting as it’s own class? Are the new “hulthemias” more appropriately considered as floribundas with a blotch rather than Hulthemia hybrids?
They are really beautiful though, look at those amazing two-toned blotches!
“This Morning”, shrub, Harkness 2018 (photo from northlodgecottagegarden 's Facebook page):
I really do like the two-color effect shown in that Chawton Cottage photo.
The point you’ve made about the somewhat misleading term “Hulthemia hybrids” is a good one (I’ve tended to use “persica hybrids,” since the species from which the trait has been derived is generally regarded as a member of Rosa now; it’s still misleading, though). Although many of the introductions being sold do still have some other features that betray Rosa persica ancestry, by and by the blotch trait is becoming more isolated from some of those other probably genetically linked traits. Given how distinctive and horticulturally notable the blotch generally is, it would still make very good sense for there to be a cultivar Group to refer to them collectively, in addition to any other cultivar Groups they might belong to. An analogous situation exists in tree peonies, where cultivars having the petal blotch derived from Paeonia rockii are now referred to as the Gansu Group.
I crossed in your eyes pollen with Baron Girad de l’Ain the hybrid perpetual. I got one hip from my test cross that had TONS of seed. Two seedlings have germinated so far, one has bloomed and the other is just popping out of the ground. I didnt see a blotch on the one that flowered, but it has a very pleasing, sweet, intense fragrance. It inherited the vigor from in your eyes (it grows so fast and big in my yard) but the foliage looks very much like baron girod.
That’s exciting @Bregingew, congratulations ! I hope you will get lots of germinations and wonder what the blotch frequency will be like. I read somewhere on this forum (sorry I forget who said it) that the blotch can be very faint in the first blooms and strengthen later. Looking forward to seeing your results!
Since this just popped up, I have a small update on the Kordes series.
Around August 5th last year I collected a couple hips from See You in Red and one single hip from See You in Pink in a nursery. Both varieties had a good number of OP hips; most first year plants here have their first flush in the second part of may, so those hips had set about 75 days before (that is, they were definitely unripe). I let the seeds dry until i started the usual cold stratification at the beginning of october. Seeds were planted outside around January 1st. There were 5 seeds from See You in pink, and 11 from the red one.
Just last week I noticed a germination from See You in pink. Still at the cotyledon stage, so anything could happen. Considering that these seeds received a less than optimal treatment, even one germination is more than I expected. Consider that last year I planted about 100 seeds from Eyes for You to test its germination potential and got no germination at all; eyes on me seems to behave similarly.
I bought See You in Pink, I’ll try working with it
@jAc123
Very cool to hear that your See You in Pink seeds are germinating!
And thank you for sharing your experience with Eyes for You. I had noticed from HMF searches that it was much more likely to be a pollen parent than a seed parent, but I had hopes that it might still work. My own experiment with it, much more limited than yours, also gave me zero germinations this year. So it seems that trying to use EfY as a seed parent might be a waste of time.
It seems to be a pattern with several of the Hulthemia Persica hybrids that they may set lots of hips and produce seed, but then germination is dismal. I have also seen zero germination from Raspberry Kiss (Bright as a Button) in spite of the almost automatic hip set.
I wonder if some of them are known to be reliable seed parents?
I have also seen zero germination from Raspberry Kiss (Bright as a Button) in spite of the almost automatic hip set.
It can have germinations, but it’s real low, more of a passive pursuit than something I’d be actively crossing on to. Just for context, from a full plants harvest (OP and just unmarked random pollen dabbing)…so a ridiculous amount of seed, from last season I have 8 plants. There were a few more seedlings but they died for whatever reason (not just tiny seedling death, they got to 5inch/12cm+ and then just died). Only 5 of them have bloomed (it’s now autumn/fall here), even from the previous season there are some they haven’t bloomed. This may be because they crossed with one species or another (I have ~30 of those around) but there’s no indication of that in their growth or foliage. On the plus side, those that have flowered pretty consistently have the blotch and all seem to have the same general health of the parent. Of all the ones that have bloomed any year…they’re all pale pinks or whites with a deeper reverse…nothing too exciting
[via Google Translate: Yes, but try to avoid crossing with double-flowered varieties. In addition, if the other half does not have disease resistance, it should not be inherited much. - Ed]
Here is an update on the seedling pictured above, it definitley had a glow up and the number of petals is much higher. Still very vigorous and intensely fragrant, unfortunately it also inherited baron’s love of powdery mildew, so the plant foliage is not looking great, I’m hoping the vigor will outcompete the diesease. I checked the petals and it still doesnt look like there are any blotches. But in general i find the bloom pleasing! Its sibling still hasnt bloomed yet, updates to come.
Update, i have 5 seeds that have germinated from my open pollinated eyeconic mango lemonade out of many seeds. I would guess maybe 100-200. They germinated right at the 3 month mark in the fridge.
Also, i finally have a bud forming on my second seedling from my in your eyes cross. The rose in my previous picture isnt blotched.
A quick update about Orienta Aylin in case anyone wants to use her:
I have used her pollen, it is very abundant, very orange in color, and seems very fertile: I tried her on several different seed parents and hip set almost every time.
Contrary to what I had observed on her very first blooms, subsequent blooms did form OP hips rather freely. I don’t intend to grow these but will leave three of them on and collect the seeds to find out about germination rates and will report back about that next year! A very good rose, completely mildew-free here. Unfortunate that she only has the faintest of fragrances.
This leads me to a question about Hulthemia hybrids: why are they all so lacking in the fragrance department? Aside from Eyes for You they all really seem to be pretty scentless. Is this just something that hasn’t been pursued by breeders? Or is it for some reason very difficult to create a blotched rose with truly strong fragrance?
I’m pretty sure that it isn’t inherently difficult to create a blotched rose with a strong fragrance. Of course, it can take much more effort to get back to fragrant offspring if you are starting with weakly scented parents, so working from a rose like Eyes for You would probably save a lot of time and trouble.
I am just starting to play with breeding by growing OP hips. I have a new seedling of the miniature Diane Sommers - have not had any blooms yet. I am hoping to see the blotch!
There was a nice surprise waiting for me in the seedings bed today. It comes from a batch of “OP” Alfred Sisley. Not actually OP, as I hand pollinated this specific hip, but I messed up with the pollen jars (I was sure the pollen donor was not the one I intended to use, but it could have been basically everything I used last year).
I’m sure the pollen parent is Eyes for You, as it is the only hulthemia I used last year. This specific seedling is consistent with it. 5 petals, nicely rounded and decent in size (4.5cm). When in bud the color is a strong pink. The back of the petals is darker and the petals seem to be quite thick. Medium scent, spicy.
It’s the second seedling to bloom from this cross (the first one is a single white, no blotch). Both of them showed no sign of mildew when some seedlings close to them were dying from it. I have to wait a bit longer to account for blackspot resistance. This one doesn’t seem to be as thorny as Eyes for you and its white sibling.
Alfred Sisley x Eyes for You would make it 5 generations away from R. persica, with no further reinjection of hulthemia blood. Not the biggest nor the darkest blotch I have seen, but considering it is a young seedling and the 34°C we had today I can say I am satisfied.
That’s an impressive first bloom–I really like the colors, and particularly the darker reverse with the blotch, but having some fragrance to accompany it is even better.
With enough temperatures like that, assuming there is also high humidity, you might just be able to select for blackspot resistance that could be meaningful even here!
