Interesting article about patent & Ralph Moore's quote

[roseseek]

There is a stupid, old joke about the “scientist” who placed a frog on a table then slapped the table. The frog jumped. He then began cutting off the frog’s legs and slapping the table after each amputation and the frog continued jumping. After he cut off the final leg and slapped the table, the frog just sat there. He slapped the table harder and harder, with the same response…none. His conclusion? Frogs with no legs are deaf.

That is very much your conclusion from these articles. Lawyers and their salaries are not shown to have any effect on the plummeting rose sales. The statements in this latest article, roses are a luxury and

" devoted gardeners have appreciated the marvels of delicate and finicky hybrid roses … The product of generations of breeding, the queen of flowers could act like a spoiled princess because its delicate blooms offered a special reward.

In recent years, though, time-strapped homeowners have traded their big teas for compact shrub roses – utilitarian soldiers in the landscape that could cover ground without fuss.

Our desire for the carefree – no-iron shirts, no-wax floors, and now low-maintenance yards – has brought California’s rose industry to a crossroads."

I guess you could argue that many politicians are lawyers and many of our ills have been brought on by other social and political factors in which lawyers have played key parts, but patent attorneys nor plant patents haven’t. I agree, we throw money on many who are really the least worthy of it. I doubt anyone could convince me that any celebrity or sports figure is worth the money our skewed value system throws at them instead of the people who are responsible for the education and safety of children. I also agree with the statement that attorneys are frequently not viewed in very flattering ways. (I know ALL the lawyer jokes and adore them! no offense to any lawyers here; one of my best friends IS a lawyer and he adores the jokes, too!)

The key words are “luxury” and “time strapped”. ALL “hobbies” and labor intensive, non essential efforts have suffered from the same issues which have caused the decline in rose sales. All plant societies are failing because of lack of people, time and donations/memberships. All hobby associations, except, perhaps those concerning fire arms, ball related sports and motorcycles, are suffering from the same ills…dwindling desire/ability to throw time and money at them. Patent attorneys and plant patents are not, and haven’t been demonstrated to be by these articles, the causes.

[roseseek]

I know that is one factor, Henry. The necessity of chemical intervention has affected my selection of varieties for many years. I have known too many people who have developed severe, nasty diseases associated with exposure to both work related as well as home use pesticides and fungicides. I determined a very long time ago NO garden subject was worth the exposure or cost of their use. Yes, I know many MUST use them or not grow roses and other “hobbyist plants”. It is their choice whether or not to use them and how. MINE has been not to use them and to cure disease and suitability issues with a shovel, instead.

The desire not to have to use chemicals is definitely implied by the “no care” statement.

[henry_kuska]

Two other possible factors for a decrease in rose sales:

1. Need to plant food crops

2. Lack of water for non essential uses

[davidzlesak]

What a great discussion!! I just paid my $695 issue fee this week for the patent for my Oso Happy Smoothie rose. With the original application fee, the overall cost is about $1200. Fortunately, I’m getting enough practice writing them that my rose patents have been going through without problem. More fees would be associated with needing to modify the patent. I’m also thankful I can claim small entity status (most of us on this forum probably can and many of the smaller rose nurseries too), otherwise, the government fees would be about twice as much. The lowest cost for a person to get a plant patent with everything going smoothly is ~$1200. If someone chooses to hire patent agents/attorneys instead of learning how to take the data and preparing the forms themselves it would add much more depending on what they choose to charge and how long it takes to prepare. I was sure intimidated the first time I applied for a patent. RHA member Harvey Davidson was the one that really encouraged me to go for it. I’m thankful for that encouragement. So far, the sales of any of my roses in the marketplace have not covered their patent costs. Thankfully, I have a “day job” that meets my needs and I can use some of those resources towards keeping my hobby of rose breeding going. Long ago I have come to the realization I breed roses to learn more about them and for the joy of it. It is a bonus to see some of my roses in the marketplace for others to enjoy. Since I have set conservative financial expectations for myself in regards to returns on rose breeding, I’m not disappointed. After all, without my own nursery to introduce roses, I can’t depend on anyone else picking them up and covering my costs.

I agree with many that the article on the value of patents is woefully incomplete and does not take into account enough legitimate variables. Just counting patent numbers is a very small part of the story.

About a decade ago we had a growing market it seemed for healthier roses as the traditional rose sales declined that need preventative spraying for a chance at looking good. As breeders continue to make improvements with disease resistance and bring in traditionally loved traits in roses (and marketing more closely reflects performance), I believe the rose market can increase again. Even though the overall gardening market may be stagnant or declining, roses have a lot to offer compared to many other plants and with strategic efforts can reclaim more of the market share they do now.

It is nice to see in the most recent article link Charlie Anderson is the president of Weeks now. I met him in 2005 when he was the president of J&P.

There are some nurseries in recent years that have chose not to patent their newer roses anymore and just depend on their trademark names for some protection. Their feeling is that the number of plants they expect to sell makes it hard to warrant the patent costs. Also, part of their justification is that a patent is only as good as one is willing to and capable of enforcing it. Someone of course can propagate those roses and sell them under another trademark name, but they feel like the risk isn’t worth the cost.