Inheritance of repeat flowering

Repeat flowering is said to be a recessively inherited trait. So, 2 copies of this repeat gene have to be present in the seedling progeny for repeat flowering to be expressed.

NOW…are there roses whose egg or pollen contain 2 or more repeat genes(eg. diploid egg or diploid pollen where each chromosome set contains one repeat gene)?

If this is possible, then crossing such roses with roses lacking a repeat gene altogether should make a few F1 repeat flowering crosses.

George, I can’t answer your question.

I can tell you there are several recorded examples of repeat flowering offspring in first generation hybrids involving species.

I’ve got some here of my own.

That is a very lucky thing for you Robert.

George, I think “luck” has much to do with it.

Here’s an example a friend of mine created. I’ve been happily using it for the past several seasons.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=50024

Hi Robert. I find F1 results like ‘HelRou’ very inspirational.

Roses can be very forgiving as well as giving, at times.

I can’t agree more.

I recently sent a group of R glauca x R. pendulina seedlings created by Joan Monteith to Jeff Stover.

Those seedling gave me three repeat flowering first generation seedlings when used as pollen parent.

It doesn’t make sense but I’m sure the seedlings are hybrids.

Here’s a link to one of them.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=61589&tab=1

very cool!

Here’s a link to another.

Note the similarities.

They are even more apparent in person. I have them growing side by side.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=60449&tab=1

Robert said:

“I recently sent a group of R glauca x R. pendulina seedlings created by Joan Monteith to Jeff Stover.”

I can’t wait for Spring to see what they produce!

Jeff, I doubt they will flower next season. You’ll lose a year.

They are non-remontant. It will take a year for them to produce new wood capable of flowering.

The wood produced next season will flower the following year.

Did I mention rose breeding is not for the impatient?

These seedlings were germinated in 2004. I didn’t get to use them till 2006. In the big picture that’s very quick.

Robert, have you used ‘R glauca x R. pendulina’ as seed parent?

Robert:

It’s a good thing I’m not 100 years old! Then again, Ralph Moore never stopped.

Jeff

No, I didn’t try it. They never produced a great quantity of blossoms so I thought it more efficient to use the pollen with seed parents I knew to be fertile.

Flowering might be much better in a climate where there is enough chill.

It’s a miracle they flowered at all here considering the natural climactic range of the species involved.

Hips were produced. I sent a couple to Jeff when I bare rooted the seedlings

See link

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=21.105461

Good luck with ‘R glauca x R. pendulina’, Robert and Jeff. So many possibilities.

George,

My observations would suggest that the inheritance of repeat bloom is very complex and unpredictable when you start involving species roses. That simple notion of the recessiveness of rebloom only holds true when you stay within a certain group of modern roses.

I’ve had combinations of two repeat-blooming roses produce all non-repeat seedlings (Hybrid Tea X Rosa carolina). And I’ve also gotten repeat seedlings from first generation crosses with a non-repeat blooming species [multiflora X rugosa].

As many others here will probably agree, there are most likely different genes for rebloom in different species of roses. These genes could be triggered by very different environmental cues (temperature, photoperiod etc.) I even think that the right combination of two non-reblooming species could very well turn out some reblooming seedlings (at least in the F2 generation). It would just take the right combination of genes.

A theoretical example: Suppose one species required cold to initiate flower buds that then opened as soon as the weather was warm enough. (so it was photoperiod insensitive) A second species only started to initiate flowerbuds when the days had become a certain length (but this one is temperature insensitive). F2 descendants of a cross of these two species should sometimes get a combination of no photoperiod requirement and no temperature requirement. They would bloom whenever it was warm enough to do so.



So, don’t get too tied down by what you’ve been told about inheritance of traits. Just go ahead and have some fun discovering. There’s so much out there that none of us know yet - you can be the one to teach it to us.

Best wishes, Tom

A second species only started to initiate flowerbuds when the days had become a certain length (but this one is temperature insensitive).

Is there any evidence that the blooming of any roses have a dependence on daylength?

“Is there any evidence that the blooming of any roses have a dependence on daylength?”

I can think of two.

Even if without experimenting with a phytotron sorting daylength influence from light quantity one is difficult.

Whichever autumn temps rugosa stops growing very early. As if daylength determined.

Winter hot greenhouse grown gallica and derived from fail forming flower buds (blind shoots) when Chinas and Teas have little problems blooming.

Tom, thanks for offering your valuable observations.

I always just assumed that light exposure had a positive influence on flower production…Aren’t roses grown ‘under lights’ in the cut flower industry to extend and maximise the flower production?

George, I would just “go for it” with whatever crosses you are interested. I wouldn’t let it stop me even with once bloomers since you might get lucky!

Jim Sproul