Iceberg and Schneewittchen Same? and Different?

From Modern Roses V:

Iceberg. F. (Kordes; int. McGreedy, '58.) Robin Hood X Virgo. Large (3 in.), dbl. (24 petals), high centered, slightly fragrant, pure white; truss. Fol. light green. Vig.; very free bloom.

Schneewittchen. HMsk. (Kordes, '58.) Robin Hood X Virgo. Bud long pointed; fl. large, semi-dbl., open, very fragrant, pure white; cluster. Fol. light green, glossy. Vig., upright, bushy; profuse bloom. (21)

For the first few years, Iceberg and Schneewittchen were treated as two separate and distinct cultivars. It wasn’t until later (by Modern Roses VI) that these two cultivars were later merged to be one and the same. While growing these roses and showing these two roses produces the same or similar results, how can using them in hybridizing be effected? Is this the reason why my plant of Iceberg produces almost no hips, but Iceberg is the seed parent of quite a few roses? Is this also the reason why the ploidy and growing characteristics cited from Iceberg are not always consistent? From the descriptions, it does appear to me that two different cultivars were introduced.

Just working the odds, I’d say they’re the same. It’s asking almost too much to get two varieties with almost identical descriptions from the same cross at the same time. But it’s worth checking into. The fertility of different varieties is greatly affected by conditions where they’re grown. Fragrant Cloud, for instance, has been the seed parent of quite a few varieties–but my experience is that it’s very difficult to get it to set seed. Ditto for Tropicana and some other varieties. I’m thinking that we may have the same thing happening in relation to Iceberg. In Texas and in WV, I’ve had difficulty getting Iceberg to set seed–but apparently in some other locations (or maybe in a greenhouse) it does much better.

Peter

Those roses are one in the same.

Perhaps there is something in your environment that’s preventing rose hip formation…

When it gets REALLY hot here, my roses don’t set hips. That’s why I don’t pollinate during the highest heat in the summer. They usually abort.

Schneewittchen is the German name for Iceberg.

Both are the same.

On my visit to Wilhelm Kordes II in 1971 we talked about the seed parent of Iceberg, ‘Robin Hood’ and he encouraged me to try my luck with ‘Robin Hood’. I did not have Virgo at the time and used Pascali as pollen parent to produce ‘Shades of Pink’. For more details read my ‘Shades of Pink’ story on my site. Link below.

George

Link: www3.telus.net/georgemander/stories/shades.html

Just checked Iceberg and Schneewittchen at HelpMeFind Roses.

This is the first time I checked into it.

At both there are :

168 unique descendants !!

HMF link below

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=3360&tab=21&lstTyp=128