hulthemosa hardii

Looking at Jim’s work on the hulthemia hybrids I would love to try them as well… they seem like a perfect choice for dry inland Australian gardens. Only problem is we can’t get ‘Tigris’ or any of the later hybrids like ‘Persian Autumn’ (I wonder how hard it would be to import it into Australia???) and we can get ‘Euphrates’ but it is probably sterile according to what’s been discussed on here. I have just found a place, however, that has hulthemosa hardii in its catalogue. Has anyone worked with this one? There is not much mention of it here in the archives.

On helpmefind.com in the reference section there is mention of it being infertile.

Only one hybrid between R. persica and another rose had ever been known. It was raised in the Luxembourg Gardens in 1836, and was called ‘Hardii’. It also has yellow flowers, paler but larger than those of R. persica, and it exhibits a fine red eye. Alec [Cocker] had about fifty plants of ‘Hardii’… He determined to raise a new race of roses from it, but after a few years he discovered that ‘Hardii’ was incapable of setting seed, infertile in pollen, utterly sterile. The answer, he decided, was to forget ‘Hardii’, and obtain the species which had borne it, R. persica.

Patrick

I tried getting persica from Cocker for a friend of mine several years ago. They have it but they would not supply it, no way, no how. They were quite adamant, and not particularly friendly.

‘Persian Autumn’ is really easy to work with as pollen parent but the seedlings it produces often lack the blotch.

I really believe the choice for seed parent is important in these crosses, especially as something akin to the blotch already exists in many cultivars.

The Moore Halo series of roses are good examples of this. I’ve similar coloring in many of my seedlings.

I probably won’t work with Persian Autumn any more. I might dabble with Jim’s “I89-2” but only because it has produced some interesting results due to it’s lineage.

The blotch would be a bonus should it appear in any of the offspring.

I’ll likely try “I89-2” on this seedling to see what happens. You’ll note among the photos a strong halo at the petal base.

Seed parents of this type seem to me a logical choice for use with persica hybrids.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=49800&tab=10

Robert, would using Persian Sunset as the seed parent produce more seedlings with blotches?

Patrick

Persian Sunset has not set hips here, at least OP.

Btw, I suspect a halo mini was used to create ‘Persian Autumn’ which would make it likely triploid.

I just found this under notes at the HMF page for ‘Persian Sunset’.

"Ralph Moore’s Spring 2006 Minirama from Sequoia Nursery says that the pollen parent is an “un-named ‘Halo’ variety.”

Apparently the halo and the blotch work together to quantify effect.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=48572

Persian Sunset had almost 100% takes with various other pollen this year. Even have a couple of Persian Sunset X R. Fedtschenkoana seedlings. Have a couple of seedlings with Baby Love pollen that are about to bloom.

Patrick

It’s be interesting to hear what you come up with Patrick. I would not have even bothered trying PS and seed parent based on it’s OP track record here.

Ah…

but there is a persica hybrid called Tiger Eyes that’s at your country. I remember, but where… I can’t say.

I think there’s no way to import or export plants from Australia. Those are pretty tight and not worthwhile to risk.

Years ago I sent somebody OP seeds of Basye’s Blueberry, and I didn’t know anything about that. But since then, I’ve learned that it could have costed me a leg…

Hi Simon,

The H. persicas have been a very interesting group. I would go after ‘Tiger Eyes’ if it is available.

Robert, it seems that the expression of the blotch is at times inhibited and at other times perhaps promoted by rose genes. I tend to think that the halo in the halo roses competes with rather than promotes the expression of the blotch. The halo coloration appears to me like a straight “bar” across the lower portion of the petal. I have noted that on many crosses with roses having halo genes in them, that the persica blotch is “cleared” from the apex portion of the petal (see photo below).



Very little of the blotch is evident in the above photo. You’ll note that the cleared portion of the blotch has a similar shape and positioning to what a halo would have.


Just below, here is a view of PS compared to my K201 (a PS grandbaby). You’ll note that both have some clearing at the petal apex, although less of that is evident in K201.


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Finally, here is a photo that I recently put on another post showing good blotch development all the way to the petal apex. That is something that I am trying to get more of, but it seems that the halo genes in some of the hybrids may be responsible for making that more difficult to achieve.



These are just some of my random thoughts about what I am observing in the Hulthemia seedlings.

Jim Sproul

The above reminds me of the color pattern of several non-rose plants, which is cool.

I think if I were to try these hybrids, I would aim for large-flowered shrubs. For example, I think I would first try {City Livery, Anne Hathaway, Tequila, Electric Blanket and Toprose) x Roses Are Red. However, I think I’ll leave these to those already delving into them :slight_smile:

You got to release one of your hybrids pretty soon Jim. Always tempting us like that…

So beautiful, the last one. Reminds me of the colors of Euphrates.

Thankyou all for your replies. Enrique, I have never heard of ‘Tiger Eyes’ being available here. I will have to send out some feelers to see what I can find. We can import roses to Australia (Jim’s ‘Honey Dijon’ is here now… I’m with Enrique… you need to release some of your persica hybrids so we can get them here :wink: ) but don’t think we can export due to rose rosette virus being here.

I’ve done a very quick search around the rose nurseries I haunt and can’t find ‘Tiger Eyes’ yet… can find ‘Euphrates’ (and I have ‘Euphrates’ already) but not tiger eyes… yet! You give me hope Enrique :slight_smile:

I guess this makes Jim a tease, heh.

Oh, I thought of another I would combine with Roses Are Red had I had the time/effort/will – Jude the Obscure. It’s seed germinates decently, and it loves to give large singles and semi-doubles much like it’s Golden Wings/Windrush lineage dictates.