How Hardy is Suzanne - A few other Hybridizing q's

I am interested in a rose called Suzanne and its use as either a seed or pollen parent. Has anyone had much experience with it? How hardy is it? I am assuming it is fairly hardy because of its parents. What is its ploidy?

Anlong that same line, is R. Spinossissima a viable pollen or seed parent?

I am making some baby steps into the world of hybridizing and I am trying to establish my first group of parents that I can play with. As of right now I have Applejack and Suzanne as my 2 main roses that I want to try to cross everything else with. I am also considering R. Spinossissima. I plan on crossing a lot of different climbers/big roses with Applejack and Suzanne to see what happens. Casino, Graham Thomas, Buff Beauty, New Hampshire Statehouse Autumn Sunset, Compassion, Polka, Dornroschen, Lichkonigin Lucia and Dortmund are all roses I havewill have and would like to cross with Applejack and Suzanne.

I was also wondering about Morden Sunrise. It this rose a viable parent? I am still deciding on weather or not I want to add it to my list of roses for next spring.

Thanks for any help

Suzanne is listed in the following table:

http://www.extension.umn.edu/distribution/horticulture/components/6594t04.html

It is a tetraploid. I think that I still have it; I say “think” because it is in a part of my garden that is completely overgrown as the roses in that part are all near species and/or species and have suckered badly (one solid thicket).

Can’t tell you about Suzanne, but Dornrosen makes a very good seed parent, and I’ve also had good luck with Litchkonigin Lucia as a seed parent.

Joan

Mr Kuska,

Have you tried making any crosses with Suzane? I have dug through a majority of your online stuff and found a lot of it very interesting.

I was looking through all of your crosses and I was wondering how winter hardy some of them turned out to be. Have you compiled any statistics on how hardy some of your crosses turned out to be?

Two bushes of ‘Suzanne’ are among the four roses that survive west of Cheyenne Wyoming at the High Plains Research Center. They were planted in the 1950s when there was a cold hardy breeding program there. They have had no special care for decades. They are growing in pH 7.0 soil and their USDA zone is 4.

Two of my plants of Suzanne are from Skinner Nursery and they are from zone 3 (and arrived with alive canes, maybe thanks to snowcover?).

Suzanne does sucker readily.

SteveJ, unfortunately I only keep records of what worked, not what did not, so I cannot say for sure if I tried any crosses with Suzanne (I walk around my 1000 roses and pollinate targets of opportunity). I use William Baffin pollen a lot; also John Davis. Illusion almost always gives nice seedlings. Heritage and Carefree Beauty are often used when I want to increase the petal count. The 1998-1999 list link below will give an idea of what worked.

I am in zone 5 so many (most) of my Canadian, Buck, German, rugosa etc. crosses are winter hardy here.

Http://home.neo.rr.com/kuska/seedlingpage1.htm

http://home.neo.rr.com/kuska/rosehips98-99.htm

Link: home.neo.rr.com/kuska/rosehips98-99.htm

Mr. Kuska,

Out of curiosity, when you mention winter hardy are implying little or no cane dame or a lot of cane damage but with vigorous regrowth?

Still wondering about Morden Sunrise. Has anyone tried it as a parent?

Very little or no cane damage with no protection.

Steve,

I’ve not had much luck using Suzanne as a seed parent but have had success using it as a pollen parent. No winter damage in my garden for Suzanne. I’ve had good results in getting seeds when using Polka, Dornroschen, Lichkonigin Lucia, Dortmund and Graham Thomas as parents. Either way as I remember.

Bob

Bob,

Thank you for the information. Do you have any information about how winter hardy your decendants of Suzanne were? I am hoping it could be a good way to introduce the winter hardy characteristics into some crosses I would like to try.

I suppose I could just stick with the Canadians Explorers but that just doesnt seem as interesting.

Hello,

More questions. I was looking through Mr. Byrnes website and found reference to a plant called Basye’s Amphidiploid. After posting about it on rosarianscorner I was told about 3 amphidiploids. I was wondering if anyone knew if any of these plants are available? I would love to have them as a part of my little project.

Bob, I enjoyed your website and enjoyed looking at your creations. The rose that came from Reine des Violettes was very interesting. I read somewhere that Reine des Violettes was hard to work with. I added it this spring in hopes of using it and was discouraged when I found out that it may not make the best parent.

Steve, I think I still have a little bit of old seed of Basye’s Amhidiploid, open pollinated of course. If I find them, I’ll send it out to you.

“The Probable Amphidiploid” came from a open pollinated seedling from a cross of R. moschata abyssinica x R. rugosa. Dr. Basye didn’t apply chromosome doubling substances to obtain this seedling. I have the ARS article on PDF format if you want me to send it to you. I’ve included a picture I’ve uploaded on Helpmefind.com from the San Jose Heritage Rose Gardens. If you live by, you could visit there and ask Mel Hulse for a cutting. Wait for when they need volunteer prunners-- you may get all the cuttings you want.

Kim Rupert has 3rd generation seedling from this rose: Lynnie. You may want to buy it from Ashdowns.com and 77-361, the parent of Lynnie.

Not much of Dr. Basye’s amphidiploids are circulating around, but I did obtain another. I plan to share its identity and release propogation material only once my friend and I can get a crack at it first. It will be a while before I even have propogation material since my friend is the one rooted it for me and it will take a long while before he can root another one for my garden. It will be a nice surprise for everyone, especially for the fans of Basye’s roses.

Link: www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=11634

Steve,

I only have F1’s from the TB x Suzanne left from my Suzanne crosses. These have survived two winters in pots without any protection around the pots. There is no winter die back on all except 1 seedling, out of about 12, and this only had about 10% die back. That one seeding has some susceptibility to BS but I believe all of the rest have none or only very slight BS during the season. This is my first season with any blooms on these seedlings so how well they repeat is still unknown.

Thank you for the compliments re: my website. It is in sore need of updating. :slight_smile: I only used RdV once as a parent, on Tuscany Superb, and was rewarded with quite a few seedlings. I think the one feature on my site first bloomed when only inches tall. This year I will know whether or not it will repeat or not. I was hoping that since it bloomed so early as a small seedling that it might have inherited repeat bloom…keeping my fingers crossed. I had a sibling of that seedling bloom for the first time this season and it too is fully double with a lavender/plum combination coloring. A have a few other siblings from that cross that I’m waiting on to bloom. One is almost thornless. I can’t comment on RdV as a parent, only having used it once, but even if it isn’t a great parent I would still want one in my garden because it is so beautiful.

Bob

Thanks Bob, Enrique and Henry. You have been a great help. I am really looking forward to next spring when I can start working on the actual hybridizing.

Beyond the current RHA publications, is there any suggested reading that I could look into?

I am really interested in learning more about the creation of the Canadian Explorer roses. I am also very interested in reading more about Griffith Bucks work. I read that the U of M has Mr. Bucks notes. Does any of his work exist in publication somewhere? I have a lot more to research before I truely finalize my group of parents. I would love to find some more good information if anyone has some suggestions.

Suzanne is great here in zone 2 but I am abit of a snob, preferring Hazeldean and its seedling Prairie Peace. Look them up on helpmefind.com. We have a lot of hardy pinks and the explorer program did it to death. There are tetraploid Rosa laxa with pure white flowers also. Most of these cultivars are only really pollen fertile since many only produce some one or two seeds per hip.
It has been sometime since since I wave worked with these mostly tetraploid so my memory is abit fuzzy. Feel free to correct for I still grow thes plants I do not breed with them.