How do I make outies into inies; seed setting on top.

I am not sure why does ‘Cologne’, ‘Fragrant Plum’, ‘Double Delight’ and ‘Mon Cheri’ produce seeds ontop of the hip. I’m not too worried about it, but I feel that those type of seeds may not get the chance of reaching maturity with sufficient nutrition. Is there someway I can correct this, and does anyone know why does this occur? Are they good as seeds formed inside the hip?

Enrique - really don’t know why this happens but we have found that these exogenous seeds are just as viable as those inside the hip. Usually when we harvest the seeds from one of these that there are a lot of seeds inside and I wonder if there isn’t just enough room in there - sort of like putting 10 pounds in a five pound bag. Maybe David Z might have the technical answer to this. We have never kept track of whether or not one of the seedlings we have kept has come from one of these seeds but it might be an interesting experiment. I don’t think you can correct what Mother Nature has done and get them all to grow inside the hip. Guess we should be thankful the cross worked and the rose is forming a hip.

Good luck in your hybridizing efforts - Mitchie & John

Thanks, and yes, I am very glad that Cologne has at least put hips. This is the first year I had hips on it from a deliberate cross. Fragrant Plum only sets OP hips for me, and I use it for pollen most of the time-- which is pretty bad too. The particular cross I made was Cologne X Fragrant Plum-- the most pleasent suprise for me this year. I love the two for the fragrance and form and hope I can get many good mauves, lavenders and other colors. Both seem to be the best disease resistant of this color range and fragrance.

Hi Enrique:

In my experience, it seems that these “outties”, or exogenous seeds form when the temperatures are higher or the humidity is lower. This is just an observation. Some varieties are more prone to it, while others will only do it under certain circumstances.

Although some fertility is present, it seems in my experience to be a bit lower. I have definitely noticed that there are more hollow (dried up) embryos among seeds produced on the outside of the hip, though I agree with Mitchie that there may be more seeds per hip (10 lbs. in a 5 lb. bag), which may be why germination is still adequate.

By the way, I do not routinely water test my seeds to determine viability, but used to check it in the past. Now, I plant everything and do not waste time on discarding floaters.

Good luck on your Cologne X Fragrant Plum cross!


Thanks Jim, and when are you going to post more pics of your purple single with the californica genes? I thought it was beautiful. Reminds me of ‘Grandpa Otts’ morning glories.