Heritability of Color Sports

This has probably been covered in the past. Does anyone know whether the changes in color arising from color sports are heritable? Thanks, Robert

For starters, R. foetida bicolor is supposed to be a two-colored-petal sport of R. foetida (which has yellow on both sides of the petals.) R. f. bicolor was used in the breeding line that made the Pernetiana line of roses (now lumped into Hybrid Teas) that have the bicolor differences on different sides of the petals as well as brought in a stronger yellow than was available from the old subtle colors of yellows that probably came from Parks Yellow. The addition of strong orange shades was an additional in put.

I have a feeling this is a complicated topic. Obviously it’s possible to inherent such color changes.

I’m wondering whether a yellow sport of an otherwise pink cultivar would have a better chance of transmitting yellow to it’s offspring?

Robert, that sounds like a great experiment! If you have a desirable cross to try for the pink and yellw sport, it wouldn’t hurt to try it.

Jim Sproul

It can’t hurt I suppose. I figured there might be some documentation that might save me the experiment.

Robert, you may have seen a post I made a little while back concerning heritability of sport attributes. Color would probably be a little more “measurable” than slightly more relative traits such as more double blooms or better growth habit. I too assumed that the matter was complicated. For instance, when a sport is such that it commonly reverts, does that imply that the genome per se has not changed, but rather the expression of another pre-existing (and previously silent) genome has changed? Are there not some sports which would be permanent, genuine mutations of the genome?

As was pointed out in an earlier thread, some 80% (I believe was the estimate, if not higher) of a genome is not expressed in any typical given rose. Trying to test heritability of any one sport of any one cultivar (and comparing results to a statistically significant sampling of offspring of its original morph) would be tedious, and broad applications of whatever is proved with the one mutation might not be applicable to other sports, methinks…

At least that was what I hypothesized following my earlier query on the matter…

Do others have better info on the subject??

Thanks Phillip, you’ve summmed up about what I would have guessed. I guess we don’t know unless we try?

Apologies Robert, in reviewing my older thread I see that you had been following it, and others had made much more profound observations than my speculations!

As Ann pointed out, the two foetidas would probably be good candidates for reviewing progeny to try and get some general answers. Helpmefind lists 30 unique descendents for Austrian Copper, but the yellow morph of R. f. seems a bit of a stub having only 6 unique descendants listed. (???!) I thought it had been used much more.

Anyway, i haven’t started analyzing each offspring and its colors using my slow internet connection. Would be interesting to see.

No apology needed Phillip. I think we’ve concluded that each color sport requires experimentation to determine whether it is capable of transmitting it’s color to offspring.

The mystery is part of what keeps it interesting isn’t it?

Thanks, Robert