Paul,
I might be confused as to what you
This a discussion with a death end.
Everybody has their own thoughts about what he/she is doing.
If you have fun it’s all that matters (to me).
I was at the Kordes talk last night and Golden Gate is on my list for next year. Actually, after last night I am scraping my “old” list and starting a “new” one. In 1990 Kordes stopped spraying for all diseases in the evaluation grounds. The photos were pretty shocking to see - complete defoliation with just a few winners. 16 years later it is very hard to see any defoliated roses in the pictures of their trial grounds. Their number one breeding goal is disease resistance.
While it is too bad that they have chosen to protect the pedigrees, I have decided to not let that bother me. I think that their garden roses with the ADR designation are proabably good sources of disease resistance. I’ll grab my notes and fill everyone in on the Kordes talk on the other post.
Liz
I used Golden Gate this season. When the hips are ripe they will appear on my “hips picked” list:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pxHhTw7ylg782w9GDTC48Sg&hl=en
Link: spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=pxHhTw7ylg782w9GDTC48Sg&hl=en
Good health in Germany does not necessarily mean good health in USA, but some ADRs (Elina, Compassion) grow well in my no-spray garden. Does anyone have experience with the newer ADRs such as Lion’s Rose and Aprikola (Apricot Vigorosa)?
There is a very good desease resistance rating in Kordess roses catalog. Their rating is not perfect for me french Riviera but I would like to see more like this. 0 to 4 stars for BS and PM.
In german 2006/2007 catalog 4 stars BS or PM are:
Climbers: Aloha, Dortmund, Manita, Rosanna
Shrubs and Ground Covers: Burghausen, Felicitas, Toscana, Medeo, most rugosas and Road Runners, Pink Bassino
Fl: Gebruder Grimm, Rotilia
Minis: Pepita, Sonnenroschen
HTs do not get more than 3 stars for BS or PM but Eliza 4 and 3
Lion’s Rose is 4 and 3
Aprikola: 3 and 3 not enough for me while Gebruder Grimm and Rotilia are healthy
The parentage of Moonlight is: (seedling x Lichtkonigin Lucia) x seedling.
Golden Gate is Postillion x seedling.
Apparently, there is no Rugelda in the lineage of these roses.
I don’t have the yellow climbers here. I do have Lichtkonigin Lucia (50% defoliation from BS) and Postillion (a lot of BS, but in a bad spot, must be moved this fall). Postillion sets big hips and geminatable seeds.
Lion’s Rose is BS free in my garden but did get mildew. Since mildew is normally not a problem here, although this year it was more visible then others, it’s mildew-resistance seems to be quite low.
Aprikola and Gebrueder Grimm are very healthy here. Also Kosmos and Rosenfee. Caramella had a few leaves with spots. Sonnenroschen also blackspots a bit now. Lovely rose though, small leaves, single white flowers, very prostrate growth, but repeat flowering. Escimo did have about 20% infection, but almost no leaf drop yet. The yellow Gelber Engel is BS free, but the flower form isn’t very good. Clearly a selection because it is yellow and resistant: flower form is to be improved on by us breeders!
Rob
Rob Byrnes, I do have the Brownell roses Golden Artic and Nearly Wild in my “breeding pool”.
Below is my first yellow Brownell seedling (from Golden Artic):
http://picasaweb.google.com/HAKuska/HenrySRoses/photo#5085558433728801394
Below are seedlings with Nearly Wild in their ancestory:
http://picasaweb.google.com/HAKuska/HenrySRoses/photo#5068777487035485746
http://picasaweb.google.com/HAKuska/HenrySRoses/photo#5068891247834255474
http://picasaweb.google.com/HAKuska/HenrySRoses/photo#5071501844920882706
http://picasaweb.google.com/HAKuska/HenrySRoses/photo#5072988214981790610
http://picasaweb.google.com/HAKuska/HenrySRoses/photo#5076308151687155666
Link: picasaweb.google.com/HAKuska/HenrySRoses/photo#5085558433728801394
Henry,
Thanks for sharing the links to your Golden Arctic and Nearly Wild seedlings. Great yellow color on 586. How is disease resistance on these two Brownell roses? Do you feel they can contribute good traits for breeding? Thanks for any advice.
Rob
regarding Brownell roses- I have a cross of Carefree Beauty x Golden Arctic. I call it Arctic sunrise, a pink/yellow blend. It has never had any fungal disease in 25 years without spray. Adjacent roses are sprayed if blackspot gets bad on them. GA itself rarely had BS except at tail of the season when left unsprayed. A tree finally shaded it out. It was never terribly free blooming, compared to Carefree Beauty.
This was a very bad year and I only sprayed 4x due to travel, so lots of disease showed up lots of places. Many plants totally defoliated by early June. This was the first time that Queen O the Lakes (strong red) ever showed BS, but not mildew despite surrounded by mildew.
For comparison Carefree Sunshine was spotless all summer with no spray. So was Carefree Beauty & Silver Moon.
Rhode Island Red is moderately BS resistant, but Dr Brownell, Charlotte Brownell, Helen Hayes are very bad in this climate (eastern Kansas). Orange Ruffels and Henry Field were not that impressive either when I had them, though not as bad.
Carefree Sunshine outblooms everything, thought the flowers don’t last long and on its own roots it doesn’t get to much size so far.
I like your seedling, Henry 
I agree. I’m a sucker for singles. I wish other people appreciated them more.
I have grown to appreciate singles also. Apart from the modern day view of what a rose should look like, mine is represented by singles and damasks.
This “disease resistance”, “nearly wild” thread has been a very interesting read.
I think that the strategy that many of us are using (as mentioned by several above) is probably the most likely to yield success. That is, using clean species or near species in our crosses with other relatively disease resistant modern roses. By doing many of these crosses in parallel, the resulting clean seedlings can then be brought back together in crosses - hopefully resulting in retention of disease resistance, while bringing in the more interesting coloration and flower forms of the modern roses.
As for “disease resistant”, personally, I will not grow roses that are completely BS resistant if they are susceptible to powdery mildew. We have very little BS in our climate, but are regularly hit hard by PM every single spring - during the peak, best bloom period. I hate seeing deformed blooms and foliage, even if PM does not kill the roses.
As I have mentioned on other treads (and probably way too much!) I have used ‘Baby Love’ extensively in producing my current parent plants. Although I understand that BL is susceptible to at least one strain of BS, it does confer excellent PM resistance to its offspring. My hope is that many of these PM resistant seedlings will also have at least some BS resistance. Through these lines, I am getting completely PM free seedlings that are now having good color range and nice form and floriferousness. To these, I am now combining ‘Home Run’ seedlings that are PM resistant.
Previous to the above paragraph of breeding, I simply chose PM resistant seedlings to use in my breeding. Although as expected, this led to PM resistant seedlings, I was very disappointed when one of my very pretty PM resistant seedlings got hit exceptionally hard with one of our very rare BS outbreaks.
For me then, although breeding for BS is a priority, I cannot regularly test for it. And testing for cold hardiness is not an option.
In summary, I breed for and select for PM resistant seedlings, using PM resistant parent seedlings that have BS resistant varieties in both seed parent and pollen parent pedigrees as much as possible (and hope for at least some winter hardiness).
Jim Sproul
Larry thanks so much for sharing your experiences with some of the Brownell roses. Golden Arctic sounds like a beauty and one I’d like to try. I had Carefree Beauty and Carefree Sunshine in the past and may go back to them. I also have a number of Mystic Meidiland seedlings this year and am impressed with the disease resistance that they are showing. It descends from The Fairy and I assume that’s why disease resistance is good. Also seeing great disease resistance with my Rose Gilardi seedlings which is probably due to it being descended from Dortmund.
I think Rosa Gilardi and Shadow Dancer, and a few other Moore bred, would be better than using Dortmund since it seems, so far at least, that the mildew issue with Dortmund’s seedling has been lessened considerably.
Just for the information of many of you :
“The German Rose Trials” are never sprayed in the first or in the second year.
I have translated an article from the German RS Annual into English for a local RS.
“GERMAN ROSE TRIALS’ talks about the rigorous testing that new German roses must undergo”
You will find it on my Articles page.
George Mander
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
AS Posted by Pierre Rutten [email] on Wed, Sep 12, 2007
Many German rose trials are totally unsprayed at least the second year after planting and there is a market for no chemical roses there.
Quite interesting to read that 3 out of these five ADR winners were from Immensee.
That all resistance are bound to be overcome is not true. Most desease are rather to strictly specific and a lot of plants are unafected.
About desease resistance: there is a continuum among funghi strains from saprophyte and harmless (living on dead parts) to very virulent. Contamination and virulence vary according to temperature and dampness or splashing rain. For each funghus there is an optimum for virulence temperature as there is an optimum for plant resistance expression. PM strains have different temperature optimums that are eventually related to the cvs resistance mechanism.
No wonder that a cv is considered as resistant at a place and susceptible at another.
There are easy for roses climates and others that are difficult. Particularly the wet when hot.
As a selector I am lucky to live in a place where climate may favour alternatively every rose desease. Actually I am anxious: after six monthes without notable rain, many seedlings have quite beautifull desease free foliage. A good step toward the goal or a temporary break?
"Quite interesting to read that 3 out of these five ADR winners were from Immensee. "
Now you know why I was excited to buy White Drift. It is similar. It was cute this year. It is definitely not a flashy rose, but it looked nice growing in the rocks near the outdoor bbq pit, lol.
Oh yeah, my red striped shrub seedling I showed you all this year has 2 doses of Immense in it via Carefree Marvel. I highly recommend CM over Flower Carpet any day.