found roses--help id?

So I have some photos of found roses in my album at webshots. If any of you could take a look at them I’d appreciate it. A couple of us have been stewing over # 2 but I’d take ideas on any of them.

The #2 we’ve been wondering if it is Veilchenblau but here is the dilemma…I’m definitely zone 4 and I found this in two different towns near me (neither very populated) and the one site was certainly open (the one of the entire rose bush)–we’d guess there should be some dieback on the canes…well you can see how healthy this is…like a draft horse! The coloring is way off in the photo…way too much red. The coloring to me was very much like what I see in Veilchenblau photos. I have a Card. de Richelieu and to me the purple coloring wasn’t that far off from that(certainly not the color of say a Hansa). As you can see #2 is thornless (or appears to be–didn’t crawl around to scope out the bottom canes). I can’t say that the scent did much for me (I didn’t make a note of it like I did for # 1 and 3) I also don’t know if it repeats or not… It is tall too…my guess is 5-7 ft wide and about the same or a bit taller

Any suggestions? Of course your opinions of the others would be great too (the moss is off colored too–seems I can’t get my camera to get the purple tones unless I take a photo at night w/ the flash on). # 3 matches the color of Paul Barden’s Konigin von Danemark exactly (well, on my computer anyway) I also noted that I don’t think they’re the same…# 3 seemed much lighter and the inner petals/petaloids (whatever you want to call them) seemed to curve down back towards the eye (like they were “bowing” to it…make sense?) and the # 1 inner petals seemed to just swirl around the eye more. # 3’s inner petals reminded me of the way Mme Hardy’s petals are…like the ends of the petals can’t even get out to open.

Thanks a ton…even if this isn’t a hybridizing question…hoping to hit a different crowd here than at the antique forum on gardenweb.




#1 matches what I grow under the name 'D


Thanks Paul, I was hoping you’d answer!

I did have someone else suggest Amadis or Violette for #2…both # 1 and 3 were very fragrant…my car smelled great…I almost enjoyed getting in and out (I spent an entire afternoon gathering rose cuttings and talking w/ the people at their homes)I can’t say that 2 had any fragrance to me…

I hate to even guess what classes sometimes since I’ve only been growing roses for 4 or 5 yrs and only have 3 or 4 of any one class…makes me hesitant to guess what class sometimes. I just knew these were ones I didn’t have and I’d guessed they were centifolia or gallicas (except for the #2)

I wondered about that w/ this being South Dakota and Hansen’s work with roses…and only the one “pax” rose (Pax Apollo) is identified at the school’s garden…they don’t have his other ones but the descriptions don’t match at all…so that idea seems to be out…

Thank you so much!


I’ve got everything under a misting system in full sun and straight sand, so I’m having very good luck actually. I have cuttings of both 1 and 3 in my garden and 2 is close…so took those the first week of June…not bad I guess.

The lighter rose (3) looks like Belle Amour, although the scent is soppose to have the anise fragrance. BUT, a few people say they could not detect the anise fragrance and only smell old rose.

Thanks Enrique,

I don’t know if I trust my own nose yet…I only have a few roses to compare smells on. I’m keeping notes on whatever names people provide, I can always go back and compare them then over time.

Thanks again!


No, that’s definitely not ‘Belle Amour’, which has only semi-double cupped blooms. No resemblance in any but the most superficial ways.


I wouldn’t be terribly surprised if your #2 turns out to be Zitkala or a close relative of it… the suggestion of a boursault link Paul made seems likely. It could easily be a blanda x Amadis cross from the look of it (the leaves are too “toothy” to be Amadis herself). Doesn’t Suzy Verrier have Zitkala? Maybe she could help confirm or deny its identity…

I just bought a ‘Zitkala’ from Suzy this year…it bloomed about 3 blooms…certainly no shade of purple (that mine is missing in the photo), it wasn’t “red” to me of course (not like the HTs of today) but certainly not the same…the ‘Zitkala’ was much more of a true semidouble (Hansen called it a double), the unknown is just barely semi-double…and to me the ‘Zitkala’ seemed to face upward on an upright stem…the unknown almost is “droopy”.

I’d really like it to be one of Hansen’s of course, but unless there is some way other people can interpret that color as more of a pink, we’re out there too. I am going to go through what papers I do have…he wanted thornless root stock…George knew more about that than I did and has already done a search but maybe something weird will pop up in Hansen’s notes.



The city finance person (this is a small town–one person does it all sort of thing) drove around and visited w/ the woman who owns the #2. She’s older and not feeling well and could only say she remembered her mother planting that rose at least 60 yrs ago (the city person guessed it might have been longer than that–don’t know if that is because of something the woman said or what). I’m hoping we’ve jogged her memory a little and perhaps she’ll come up w/ more.