I recieved some seeds from Henry Kuska, (and they are now germinating) and I was looking at the roses involved in the cross. What I am not positive about is ‘did I decipher this cross correctly’? I actually had to retype and lay it out and dissect it as follows, but if I did it wrong, now is the time to get it right. It is easy to see why codes are used.

Example: (folksinger x(royal Edward x (rugosa alba x (J w fargo x (Donald prior x r. Arkansas) x mixed r arkansana hybrids))))

#1.(Donald prior x r. Arkansas)

#2.(J w fargo x (Donald prior x r. Arkansas)

#3.(rugosa alba x (J w fargo x (Donald prior x r. Arkansas) x mixed r arkansana hybrids))

#4.(royal Edward x (rugosa alba x (J w fargo x (Donald prior x r. Arkansas) x mixed r arkansana hybrids)))

#5.(folksinger x(royal Edward x (rugosa alba x (J w fargo x (Donald prior x r. Arkansas) x mixed r arkansana hybrids))))

I think I left out one cross, maybe??

I also understand why some people may just use seedling x seedling, and I know that tells you nothing compared to what getting down the history correctly says. Jackie

It is difficult to say which directions this cross is using, which is why multiple types of brackets are to be used in complex crosses.

For example,

{ x G}

tells you exactly what is paired with what, the total context and the directions of mating.

So, what I am saying is that the cross you gave can be seen in multiple says without knowing what is actually correct. The best way to know is to ask the source.

I have seen the different brackets, but I don’t know if I have ever paid attention to the directional notations. I will check. I thought it might be a bit more simplistic, and more rule of thumb-ish. Jackie

See (there I use different colors):

http://home.roadrunner.com/~kuska/2004_and_2005_very%20good%20seedlings.htm

for RSMK-1.

"Folksinger X (Royal Edward X RSMK-1) 2, 1, 0, 1 plants.

RSMK-1 is a cross of R. rugosa alba X (J.W. Fargo X (Donald Prior X R. arkansana) X mixed arkansana hybrids). It is a tetraploid. The pollen was provided by Peter Harris"

Link: home.roadrunner.com/~kuska/2004_and_2005_very%20good%20seedlings.htm

Its a little away from the subject but last night I pulled the seeds that was sent to me from Henry and Paul. They are

(Rugelda x R15) x Op

3R20 which I will have to find out what it is it here somewhere in the mess I think this came from Henry but not sure thats listed in my notes some where

Carefree Beauty x (folksinger x Illusion) op

Basye’s Amphidiploids F2 Op

But some of these have already started to sprout and Hopefully I will find something to work with. My crosses this pass year was mostly miniature x (L83 , William Baffin , Cuthbert Grant , Complicata). I am plaining to combine these lines once I select from this generation. I also have a bunch of Op seeds from Praire Harvest, Carefree Beauty, and rugosa Magnifica and an unknown rugosa that got from a friend and since they were all grown in the same bed as these and other hardy disease resistant varieties there is probably something very good in there. But I just wanted to say that you Paul, Henry and David who gave me pollen or seed to work with because as I was planting seed last night I realized just how much I owe to others. And thanks every one else hows knowledge I am not trying to waste.

I also found crosses of R. glauca x R. woodsii I made which has the gears in my head going. Hopefully they sprout.

Hi Jackie,

Like Jadae, I use different types of brackets to make it easier to decipher crosses. In the example, (folksinger x(royal Edward x (rugosa alba x (J w fargo x (Donald prior x r. Arkansas) x mixed r arkansana hybrids)))), it looks to me like there are possibly two brackets that are misplaced.

The base cross appears to be Donald prior x r. Arkansas. This was then put in brackets to denote that a resulting seedling from that cross was crossed with something else. Where it was crossed with something else, it appears that a bracket is missing. If it were crossed with “mixed r arkansana hybrids”, then the final notation would have included a double bracket before Donald prior, looking like “x ((Donald prior x”, while if that first seedling were crossed with “J w fargo”, the double bracket would have been after r. Arkansas.

Final notation (with brackets added) might look like:

folksinger x (royal Edward x )

or

folksinger x (royal Edward x )

Using different bracket types makes it easier to spot an error (though even using different bracket types, I still make these kinds of errors and there are a few on my website!)

Jim Sproul

If I were to guess which of the notations was correct I would guess the first one. [JW Fargo x (Donald Prior x R.arkansana)] was the pollen parent of both Adelaide Hoodless and Morden Ruby. My guess is that plant was crossed with a mixture of R.arkansana hybrid pollen. It’s anyones guess as to what that could be. It would be nice to know what kind of R.arkansana hybrids they were.

Thank you Henry, I do see where you use a red X to call attention to that specific cross. Jackie