ballerina, chromosome count?

Can anyone tell me what ballerina’s chromosome count is? I gues 14 but would like to be sure.

sorry seems the answer is already on the forum (28).

According to a paper by Yokoya et al. (2000) on nuclear DNA content in roses in the Annals of Botany 85:557-561, ‘Ballerina’ is a diploid. Pollen diameter data I have taken on it concurs.

Sincerely,

David

I’ve heard that it is a fertile triploid just like New Dawn… but the important thing is that this is a fertile rose.

I assumed that ballerina was diploid because it looks to have R. multiflora Var nana ass a close relative, if not a parent and seems to accept pollen from the majority of roses regardless of ploidy.

I

In the last RHA newsletter I have an article going through isolating root tip cells at the right stage of cell division to see and count the chromosomes.

Yokoya et al. used flow cytometry to estimate the DNA content of nuclei to determine ploidy of Ballerina. There is little question that Ballerina truly is a diploid and there isn’t a reason you shouldn’t feel comfortable that it is a diploid for your breeding purposes Jinks. Unless the researchers plant of Ballerina was misidentified, we can be confident that it is a diploid. Often people make educated guesses of a rose’s ploidy based upon what the parents are believed to be or fertility and such, but we can easily be wrong sometimes when we do that. Dr. Buck for instance wrote of ‘Lillian Gibson’ as being triploid without saying why he believed so. Maybe he based it on the parents (R. blanda x was it Red Star?, a hybrid tea and most hybrid teas are tetraploid) and low fertility. I confirmed ‘Lilian Gibson’ to be diploid based upon actually looking at several cells and them all having 14 chromosomes. People commonly say ‘Iceberg’ is a triploid, but as I scour the literature I don’t find where someone has actually looked at the ploidy of this rose. Perhaps it is triploid, perhaps not. So, my point is that when we are interested in learning the ploidy of a rose it is important to know the source of our information and to prioritize ploidy information from instances where chromosome number has been directly counted or DNA content measured over educated guesses when such information is available. Sometimes educated guesses are all we have to go on. Fortunately, for ‘Ballerina’ that is no longer the case.

Sincerely,

David

Thanks dave, sounds good enough for me.

Any idea about Bonica? Based on the parentage it seems it should be triploid, but it’s quite fertile. I’m wondering too if it could be a diploid and then same for First Light which is Bonica x Ballerina.

The seed parent for Bonica appears to be the same as the parentage of Swany, which would make it an apparent diploid. I’ve used Swany on a mini (tetraploid for sure) & got a nice plant that sets op seeds. First Light sets huge hips, but for me there’s been no germinations. The pollen of First Light works fine on tetraploids. I’ve had germinations, but it’s too early to determine the quality of the offspring.

So it sounds like First Light is probably a diploid whose pollen works on tetraploids. I’ve gotten lots of germinations from First Light seeds, but they’ve all been open pollinated. Lydia, have you tried both tetra and diploid pollen on First Light?

Lydia, I was assuming the seed parent was diploid, but the pollen parent looks like it is likely tetraploid though, making it possibly a fertile triploid. Has anyone done a chromosome count on Bonica or First Light?

Judith

I haven’t put anything on First Light. I’ve just been stratifying the op seeds hoping to see what it produces; so far nothing. Now you’ve given me some ideas. I’ll try this summer to see if it works with diploids, both ways. I’m thinking of putting it on Therese Bugnet.

So…

Is First Light a diploid?

I’ve assumed that Bonica was a triploid…

I wonder where I can buy First Light…

I’ve tagged some Ballerina x Peace crosses I made this year. All are making hips.

Hi Enrique,

I had a hard time obtaining ‘First Light’. I eventually did and gave the plant to the virologist here on campus I’ve been helping. It is triploid. If I remember Ben right it has the same small spherical virus our ‘Ballerina’ does that may be seed transmitted.

Sincerely,

David

I figured it was triploid. Ive never seen it out of bloom at Washington Park. It’s too bad that a recent AARS that is so pretty (healthy, aesthetic, compact all in one) is so hard to find already.