Angel Face uses

I’ve been doing lots of reading here, the web, HMF and a few magazines and read some place about ‘Angel Face.’ I remembered the name when we were out looking for annuals. I feel naturally drawn to the roses in any store now. At any rate, I saw it, bought it and now I’m wondering if any here have used it and what experiences you’ve had. HMF has a pretty extensive list of first generation offspring, but who knows how many seeds were planted to get those.

I’m sure it came from Southern California because it has several blooms. At this point nothing else is in bloom so I want to get some its pollen and freeze it. I have a couple of Rise N Shine and Cal Poly mimis that should open in a week or so, so maybe I’ll splash a little pollen around and see what happens.

I know what you mean I love the flowers especially the way they are ruffled.

I have not used it myself but I remember that it was mentioned by someone that Ralph Moore said that it is far better as a pollen parent than as a seed parent. Apparently as a seed parent the seedlings are not very vigorous. The cross with Rise n’ Shine is something I was planning to do this year myself. My Rise n’ Shine is still quite small and refuses at this point to set seed so I will be forced to use Angel Fae as the seed parent with either fresh pollen or frozen pollen if fresh is not available. Using Rise n’ Shine as the seed parent will have to wait for me.

From what I have heard however Rise n’ shine passes on a lot of seedlings that are pale. And I do not know what to expect from such a cross.

Another thing I remember reading about angel face is that it is not as good with passing on mauve and lavender colors as some of the newer lavenders and mauve roses like Lady X and extra. Especially since it has a lot of cyanin as a pigment itself and this is suppose to muddy the color and is also apparently hard to bred out. This does not make much sense to me however, but I am figuring these things out as I go.

I had a climbing Angel Face…and although I loved the blooms it contantly had blackspot no matter how much I sprayed. I used to get many hips on the bush and even had some crosses but I had very few germinations, it was very frustrating. Perhaps it was because the seeds were affected by the constant spraying, I don’t know.

Good luck with your new Angel Face and oh yes I too am drawn to the roses whenever I go into stores, you are not alone.

Adam: Thanks for the information about Rise N Shine. Seems like all of the yellows that I have pass on weak or light yellow blooms. I think it was Paul Barden that suggested the use of Cal Poly to pass on stronger yellow.

Jeanie: I did see where Angel Face has issues with BS. That was a big question I had when thinking about using it. Mr. Moore used AF as the pollen parent of Condoleezza and it is listed in HMF as very disease resistant.

I guess I’ll see what happens next spring.

Jeff, years ago I had an Angel Face, but the gophers did it in, and I did not try to resuscitate. I was tired of looking at all the mildew it always saw fit to attract, even when nothing else had it. I know it has been used a lot in crosses, and I’m sure that it has passed on good qualities as often as bad. Blueberry hill, Neptune, Cadillac de ville, Honey Dijon, Condeleeza and more are all known as pretty healthy in certain areas of the country. So if you can play to it’s best qualities, of which BS and Mildew are not, you could get something out of it. Neptune and Barbra Streisand are certainly winners in the fragrance area, and I don’t know if that is where they get their fragrance, but IMO, the fragrance was what AF had going for her. That and it’s nice compact shape.

I only ever got two seeds, no germinations from Angel Face pollen on Mr. Lincoln.

While ‘Angel Face’ figured prominently in hybridizing 20 years ago, you have to remember it was fairly unique at the time and people had little else of its kind to work with. That doesn’t mean it was a particularly good parent. Ralph Moore used it frequently in breeding but many, many seedlings were discarded just to find a few half decent ones. He used it “because its what I had”, not because it was good. Most of the Moore roses with ‘Angel Face’ as a parent all lack vigor and frequently try to die every Winter, even in my climate.

‘Angel Face’ has the “death genes” from ‘Gray Pearl’ in it and I would turn to any one of dozens of other much better plants before I resorted to using it. (‘Ebb Tide’ comes to mind immediately) I have always found it seriously lacking in vigor and have never seen a decent specimen. My local public rose garden finally gave up on it two years ago because it never exceeded 18" tall and always looked pathetic next to the other Floribundas. Do whatever makes you happy, of course, but I would suggest not investing a lot of time or energy into working with it.


‘Angel Face’ has the “death genes” from ‘Gray Pearl’

Is there more to this story or are you meaning they just seem to want to kick off with any excuse?

Specifically, the offspring of ‘Grey Pearl’ tend to live for a few years and then start dying back and eventually they die, period. This seems to be related to the fact that the ‘Grey Pearl’ clan tend to bloom themselves to death. Want to keep a plant of ‘Grey Pearl’ alive forever? Never, ever allow it to bloom!

Grey Pearl does fine where I live. I seldom prune it but then I don’t give it anything special either. It’s never gotten very large.

I’ve had it for at least a decade. It shows no sign of dying anytime soon. I let it blossom as much as it wishes.

I’ve got a friend that’s uses GP for hybridizing under greenhouse conditions, even for seed.

My specimen is on fortuniana.

Kim Rupert always said Grey Pearl has a death wish. It hasn’t proven true here. Maybe it just needs lots of heat?

I’ve got a descendant I’m testing as seed parent this season. It’s not a high priority but it’s fun to play with.


Interesting information. Since I’m very new at this hobby I’m looking to do some controlled chaos pollinating until my other roses start blooming. I see all those blooms on recently purchased plants and I hate the thought of them going to waste without doing something with them. I’m still looking forward to working with Crested Moss, Henri Martin and a couple of miniatures that I’ve picked up.

I purchased CM and HM bare root and they were pruned back pretty hard for shipping. So far there has been some good new growth, but I’m wondering if they will flower this year. I should know in a couple of weeks.



It’s unlikely that you will see those flower this year if they were pruned back hard, but you never know. If you want pollen from either of these, I will have some available in late May.