A rose by any other name.....


You asked whether ‘Big Ben’, ‘Uncle Joe’, ‘Toro’ and ‘Papa Meilland’ were all the same rose based on an article published by Le Mire.

I guess the best answer might be that any rose can be ‘sold’ under any name if ethics are suspended.


The ARS has long recognized that ‘Uncle Joe’ and ‘Toro’ are most likely the same rose based on genetic testing and when exhibiting this cultivar, the preferred name is ‘Uncle Joe’.

‘Papa Meilland’ was introduced in 1963 by Meilland using 'Chriysler Imperial x ‘Charles Mallerin’ as parents.

While is it listed as being very fragrant, it has olive green foliage.

‘Big Ben’ was introduced in 1964 by Gandy using 'Ena Harkness x ‘Charles Mallerin’ as parents. It has dark foliage and is also very fragrant.

‘Uncle Joe’ was introduced in 1972 by Kern Rose Nursery using 'Mirandy x ‘Charles Mallerin’ as parents and the fragrance isn’t mentioned.

I think LeMire may have erred in his reporting that all of these roses were the same cultivar. Having the same parent would certainly give the off spring similar appearances.



Regarding listed parents and what they tell you about a rose; the link below gives a statement that I had made previously:


Link: www.rosehybridizers.org/forum/message.php?topid=418#421

Thanks, this is all very interesting! Robyn