2009 crosses - ready to plant

I just finished taking inventory of the seeds from my 2009 crosses. Hopefully they will be planted tomorrow. Several are already sprouting in the baggies. Below is a list of the crosses. 2009 was a challenging year for crossing up here, no heat, resulting in a very delayed growing season.

Karma x Baby Love

Alberta x B1 (Luis Desarmero x John Cabot)

Alberta x Persian Flame

Westerland x B1

Westerland x Loredo

Everest Double Fragrance x Hot Cocoa

Prairie Harvest x Loredo

B3 (Fairhope x Carefree Beauty) x Baby Love

B16 (Loving Touch x Baby Love) x Persian Flame

A1 (Morden Sunrise x William Baffin) x A3 (Morden Sunrise x Home Run)

Red Fairy x Hot Cocoa

Tiddly Winks x John Cabot

Julia Child x B1

Hot Cocoa x John Cabot

Carefree Wonder x John Cabot

Neon Cowboy x Home Run

Gemini x Persian Flame

Champaigner x John Cabot

Pretty Lady x John Cabot

Soroptimist International x John Cabot

Scarlet Moss x Hot Cocoa

Midnight Blue x Baby Love

B14 (Folksinger x Baby Love) x Persian Flame

Earthsong x Neon Cowboy

Wingding x Home Run

Daybreaker x John Cabot

Luis Desarmero x John Cabot

Carefree Beauty x B1

Carefree Beauty x Neon Cowboy

Carefree Beauty x Roller Coaster/Stars n Stripes mixed pollen

Look like you have been real busy and hopefully you’ll get a great return on your time investment.

I’m looking forward to the day when I can produce a list of crosses - :slight_smile:

Great crosses Liz.

I see you used John Cabot quite a bit last year. It


From that list of crosses can I assume you are breeding for improved Winter hardiness? (obviously!) Great choices. Nice to see someone else using John Cabot. I don’t know why that rose isn’t more widely used in breeding, since my initial results suggest that it has a LOT to offer. It appears to be very willing to breed other colors, as I got yellows from it in the first generation.

I’m amazed that Blanc Double de Coubert gave you seed. I have never seen mine produce a hip in the 11 years I have had it.

I also think your choice of Commander Gillette is an excellent one; I suspect great things can come out of this rose, especially as regards Winter hardiness and vigor. I hope to hear more about the resulting seedlings, Paul.

By the way, that R. fedtschenkoana plant of Kim’s that I promised you: all but one plant eventually failed, and the surviving loner is of questionable stability. It is fully dormant now I think, and I will go have a look and see what I think about its viability. It may be best to wait till Spring now to send it to you. That way I can at least determine if it has survived.

Paul B.

I did a few crosses on Blanc Double de Coubert years ago, but didn’t get a hip. It has produced 2 OP hips in the 9 years I’ve had it. One seed germinated, but the seedling didn’t live long.

Paul B

Even though John Cabot is a very clean rose it probably needs to be crossed with the right female to produce healthy seedlings. That may be part of the reason it isn

Paul G. you have some great crosses too! And what looks like a decent JC seedling. I see that you are using quite a few of your seedlings in crosses. It is fun to have unique germplasm to play with.

I decided to use JC and a shrublet seedling out of JC that is coded B1 on as many roses as possible last year. JC is certainly cleaner for me than William Baffin and they appear to have the same level of winter hardiness in my back yard. I actually like the form of JC far better than WB. I used WB on Gemini in 2008 and there is definitely an incompatibility there as most of the germinating seeds were rootless. I have quite a few Alberta x JC seedlings from the 2008 crosses that I could not find a reason to toss out. It will be interesting to see how they over winter, hopefully that will help me sort through them. Odd that I have never put JC on my Carefree Beauty. From your experiences I will probably skip that cross.

The rose that I am looking forward to using quite heavily in the 2010 crosses is Prairie Celebration. I put it in last spring and tried a few crosses with it as the seed parent. Unfortunately the hips were nabbed by squirrels. It is very clean and vigorous.


Thanks Liz,

If you look close at the photo you can see PM on the leaves. The PM on the seedlings when they were under lights really took a toll on them. They may have fared better outside if they hadn


I think you will be very happy with the seedlings you get from Prairie Celebration. At least, my intitial results seem promising. Prairie Celebration is one of my cleanest roses and although it dies back pretty far in northern Wisconsin, it rebounds well. What has been interesting about this female fertile rose is that I have been getting a surprising number of seedlings in the light pink/white and light yellow range when crossed with appropriate parents. I had been afraid that the light red, single bloom would produce seedlings similar to those of itself and William Booth–in other words, more pink or red single look-a-likes. This is not completely the case. The color influence is less dominant than that of William Booth and there is enough color variation in seedlings to make this a rose worth trying in hybridizing. It also seems to pass on good DR in many cases and seedlings seem a bit less susceptible to the spot diseases that plague William Booth and many Explorer roses and seedlings. On top of that, Prairie Celebration has much more reliable repeat that most Explorer roses.

On the other hand, my experience with John Cabot has not been particularly fruitful. I think JC is one of the loveliest of the Explorer roses, but I have two problems with it. The rose is spectacular initially, but when it takes a hit from extreme cold and has to be cut back, it does not rebound well, unlike the other Explorer roses. This is not just my experience. It has been echoed by the head gardener at the Leif Erikson Rose Garden in Duluth, MN, and by another experienced rose gardener in Duluth. Both have had to replace several severely damaged or dead JCs. In northern Wisconsin, my plant never got taller than three feet, due to a combination of winter damage and severe disease issues, both BS and SA. While SA has always been an issue, the break-down in BS-resistance has been more recent but has been consistent now for at least 5 years. After growing and using JC in hybridizing for more than ten years, it was shovel-pruned this past fall. Initially, it was one of my favorite pollen parents. Seedlings were vigorous, most were pink or pinkish-red, and few had repeat. I have a few seedlings I have kept over the years because they did not suffer much from BS, but the spot diseases are also a major issue for this rose and show up with regularity in seedlings. As with many of the Explorer roses, repeat in seedlings is poor in most cases. While I don’t want to discourage people from trying it, I do not consider it a fantastic rose with respect to the results I have obtained over a long period of time. I don’t like dissing roses and would say that JC can be used as a means-to-an-end type of parent but will caution against expecting a first generation seedling worthy of introduction.


I don’t have any material available from either Fedtschenkoana nor the Orangeade X Fedtschenkoana seedlings, but I can dig out some suckers from several of the Dottie Louise X Fedtschenkoana (DLFED) seedlings if anyone would be interested. Dottie Louise is Orangeade X Basye’s Legacy, which is identical to Commander Gillette. Not that Legacy is 65-626, but both the rose shared by David Neumeyer and identified by Dr. Basye as Commander Gillette and the one from The Huntington, identified by Dr. Basye as 77-361, and propagated by me, supplied to Ashdown, Sequoia, etc., and named Legacy by Paul Zimmerman and me ARE identical, though both were personally identified by Dr. Basye as differnt names/numbers. The DLFED seedlings are first generation Fedtschenkoana with the Orangeade and Legacy.

Their foliage is quite a bit more attractive to my eye, containing very blue tones, particularly in their offspring. All are varying shades of pink and can be tricked into “reblooming” by weather fluctuations much as many species and the Banksia roses are. One is repeat blooming, but it does not sucker and is the devil to root.

I’ve put some photos on my facebook page. If you log into facebook and search Kim Rupert, you may see them. The numbers in paraenthesis indicate which photos are of which seedling. Older photos are available on Help Me Find.

I’ve raised many self seedlings from them and find them to be intensely fertile, germinating well. I didn’t keep any of them through flowering due to having to move the roses and lack of time/room.

If anyone would like to grow them, please email me directly and we’ll make it happen. Kim


What is your email address? The email function on the forum goes straight to MSN.com. I am interested in a sucker, but not until spring.


Paul G


I would love to have one and I would be glad to pay you for it to help cover your cost - my email is hch1111@juno.com

Hi, it’s Roseseek@aol.com